Regarding the recent dibacle of "illegal third party mods"

To those of you who haven't heard, one of the War Thunder Youtubers, PhlyDaily, posted a video revealing someone using hacks to aim through several buildings, shooting at people from 2km away that someone without the hack couldn't even see. As you would guess, War Thunder had a strike against the video and Phly took it down. On the official forum, they held a vote whether they should withhold the strikes on War Thunder videos with people using hacks, or if they should add markers to realistic battles. There was a greater vote for the first, and the poll was deleted. Tensions about this have continued to boil within the community, and some have pledged to boycott WT for trying to censor that their are hacks for their games. On one hand, I have never been in a game with a hacker and thus have not been affected by it yet. On the other hand, this kind of censorship seems ridiculous. I love War Thunder and what it means to me, but this kind of censorship of a games faults is not what I enjoy seeing in one of my favorite games. Am I alone in this concern for Gajin's behavior in trying to direct jurisdiction so that everything is exactly what they want people to see?

Ok, I have seen a lot of this recently and most of it comes from people who have not read the post by Anton in its entirety.

The problem isn't that Gaijin are attempting to censor and hide the fact that people are able to use client based hacks which provide an unfair advantage. They freely announce when they encounter an ban said players. The problem is that when popular youtubers with large subscriptions make videos showing off these hacks, regardless of their stance on it, they serve as advertising them. As Anton said in his post "Thanks to this video, we are already seeing some growth of interest for such software."

Gaijin has had the policy where when a person was caught hacking, they were not banned completely but only for a period of time. It takes a couple of counts of hacking to be banned for good. I've seen a lot of people chiming in saying "Gaijin have no right to abuse the youtube systems to strike down peoples videos" when in fact, part of the EULA signed by all players specifically says that you are not to promote or discuss third party modifications. When you make a video about it, you remove your public fair use license and Gaijin is perfectly within their rights to request it be striked down.

Gaijin then tried to find solutions that would work in the best interest of the community. But there was simply too much contention about what should be done. There are a few people who are working with the community trying to get things done, but all that seems to happen is they get shat on each and every time. Its a small wonder they still attempt to find middle grounds.

TL:DR Gaijin have been open and honest with their dealings in this regard and it is really the fault of clickbait youtubers in this matter.

I have only encountered a hacker once in the game just because someone has hacks dont mean they know how to use them this guy was obviously just a young inexpierienced player who has no skills, this became more obvious when 85% of the people he encountered could outfly him and lead him into my gunsights lol.....

There are cheaters in 99% of games and there will always be a way for players to exploit those cheats or mods i never saw the appeal myself.......

Destroying someones channel with copy right strikes because he exposes hackers pissed me off

well to be honest its fair for Gaijin to do it because tanks are easy to use the software for an advantage, and showing it off and ply being an ass but popular ass, makes his streams and veiwers more interested or just investigating them may led to more problems so, that is why they did it.

Gaijin wouldn't do it to be spiteful, they like their games being shown off and being popular just not with issues or work around or even mods to give an advantage

Ohhh Gaijin...

Y u make amazing game and be the worst possible piece of shit developer ever? -_-

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Originally Posted by AOD_Dita2233

Destroying someones channel with copy right strikes because he exposes hackers pissed me off

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There was no strike, Phly hid the video himself. Right now, using strikes is a threat right now, and hasn't been used, other than that one incident last year, which has been resolved.

MagzTV stopped play War thunder thx to this D:

Rememeber,

AOD does NOT allow the use of hacks, cheat, or any other kind of mods that can be considered as such.

AOD members are not allowed to use software that is not been distributed by the game develepors,
that will give an advantage over other players.

Any AOD member being caught using this kind of software,
wil be banned from clan AOD for live.
forums , gameservers, TS included.

Now I know most of you guys well enough, and I don't think any of you cheats or hacks in WT.
just don't let yourself be lured into the use of this kinda software.
lets keep our games and our gameplay clean.
we don't need hacks or cheats we are AOD, we fight with honor.

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Originally Posted by AOD_BoomBoomStick

Rememeber,

AOD does NOT allow the use of hacks, cheat, or any other kind of mods that can be considered as such.

AOD members are not allowed to use software that is not been distributed by the game develepors,
that will give an advantage over other players.

Any AOD member being caught using this kind of software,
wil be banned from clan AOD for live.
forums , gameservers, TS included.

Now I know most of you guys well enough, and I don't think any of you cheats or hacks in WT.
just don't let yourself be lured into the use of this kinda software.
lets keep our games and our gameplay clean.
we don't need hacks or cheats we are AOD, we fight with honor.

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Dont worry BoomBoom. We're better then hacks so we dont need it ;D

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Originally Posted by AOD_Craigep17

well to be honest its fair for Gaijin to do it because tanks are easy to use the software for an advantage, and showing it off and ply being an ass but popular ass, makes his streams and veiwers more interested or just investigating them may led to more problems so, that is why they did it.

Gaijin wouldn't do it to be spiteful, they like their games being shown off and being popular just not with issues or work around or even mods to give an advantage

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The problem is that Phly was just informing his audience that it is still an issue that needs to be addressed. It was to show that these hacks exist, and something needs to be done to deal with them, through either making it easier to identify and ban hackers, or making the game more secure against hacks. There have been hacks for as long as WT has been out, and most of the aircraft ones don't matter. A skilled player can be just as, if not more effective, then a hacker. However with tanks, hacks that let you see tanks through terrain and show the range of enemies, break the game and ruin it for everyone else. We already have a mode that tells you where to shoot, and that's one mode that hacks are useless. In other modes, not even the most experienced players can deal with someone who is shooting through buildings 2km away and will hit every shot. Gaijin hasn't made a counter measure for this, and so it happened. A large, respected member of the community shed light on an issue they failed to address. So they abuse the YouTube copyright system, pull it down with no reasoning, and make a post offering either A: Destroy the careers of Youtubers showing the problems in our games, or B: kill a favorite game mode.

people make the copyright claim a big deal i know a lot of youtubers hate it, but seen as plhy's main area is that game and war thunder give him barron and other big wt youtubers get GE and anything else they want(from what i have seen no way would you have over 200k ge)https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mjjQ4R3tX_I.

I think yes they acted harsed and to quickly but as we all know Gaijin is usless at solvng and dealing with issues that a serious, they like to pretty up stuff rather than fix the major game breaking stuff.

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Originally Posted by AOD_BaronVonDelta

The problem is that Phly was just informing his audience that it is still an issue that needs to be addressed. It was to show that these hacks exist, and something needs to be done to deal with them, through either making it easier to identify and ban hackers, or making the game more secure against hacks. There have been hacks for as long as WT has been out, and most of the aircraft ones don't matter. A skilled player can be just as, if not more effective, then a hacker. However with tanks, hacks that let you see tanks through terrain and show the range of enemies, break the game and ruin it for everyone else. We already have a mode that tells you where to shoot, and that's one mode that hacks are useless. In other modes, not even the most experienced players can deal with someone who is shooting through buildings 2km away and will hit every shot. Gaijin hasn't made a counter measure for this, and so it happened. A large, respected member of the community shed light on an issue they failed to address. So they abuse the YouTube copyright system, pull it down with no reasoning, and make a post offering either A: Destroy the careers of Youtubers showing the problems in our games, or B: kill a favorite game mode.

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Actually, it was a little more than just that.

As Anton mentioned and they are rightfully worried about, When popular youtubers start posting videos discussing and describing hacking or cheating, it serves as an advertisement for said cheating regardless of it they choose to support or disclaim it. The more people who see a video showing hacking and how effective it is, the more who will go out and look for said hacks. There will always be those who go out of their way to locate and attempt to use hacks, but videos such as these will only serve to put ideas into peoples heads. Anton (And Gaijin Ent.) only issued a strike upon Phly after he refused to remove the video, and Anton did say that the strike could be removed if he were to comply. As the video is now hidden (but not removed) it is up to the two parties to discuss it further.

The poll itself, has been scrapped, neither of the two options are actually on the table any more. Gaijin have decided a third option is now best, which is to take resources from other teams and bolster the development team in order to change the way the game works. The intent is to have the game run everything from a server side in regards to visuals and hit detection. Gaijin has said that this will take a lot of work, and will cause other improvements and additions to the game to take a backseat until this is completed. The upcoming patch will not be affected by this, as this has already been in production for many months.

What does this mean to the average player? Ping will become critical. Your ability to see and hit targets (air and ground) will rely upon your connection to the server. If you have a bad internet connection, you will be at a disadvantage. Consider it similar to how FPS games operate. He with the lower ping will always have the advantage. Currently, the game works upon client side visual and hit detection sending that information to the server, which verifies and then applies this to the game. With the change, the server will be the only side handling it, and your client will have to download not only your own, but every other player's location and movements.

This is a good thing in terms of reducing the ability of those elements who wish to hack and cheat.

In order to do this for its players, Gaijin will have to spend a lot of money. Money on the man hours required to do the work. Money on the additional Servers and other hardware that is required. All this money has to come from somewhere, so they will have to take this away from their budgets to bring new features and vehicles to the game. Over all, the outlook of "Fix this" is not helpful at all. A lot of people cry out saying implement VAC or an Overwatch style system (CSGO Community driven hacking report system). The simple answer is A) VAC will not work in this environment, as the servers are not and will not be listed with Steam, and B) Overwatch will create false positives which Gaijin are strongly against. Their viewpoint is 1 player banned falsely for hacking is 1 too many. This is a good thing.

So finally, there is a lot more going on than people care to look into. My recommendation is to not get involved too heavily. Watch and observe, but don't get hung up on minor details. Anyone is more than welcome to come and discuss this further with me, and providing I can, I will answer and/or explain the different things that arise.

I don't understand why people are amazed or attacked or whatever by this move from gaijin
Do you guys really think gaijin doen't care about hackers?? Like every other game btw
It's totaly understandable that they do not won't those hacks to be widely know, because -as some said in this post- most people don't even encounter hackers
Because right now is a direct chance to how the game works, as Bludkind explained, which takes away time and money to actually devolp this game further
Plus this might affect the game in a bad way because people with high ping that can manage to play now, might not be in the future

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Originally Posted by AOD_Craigep17

well to be honest its fair for Gaijin to do it because tanks are easy to use the software for an advantage, and showing it off and ply being an ass but popular ass, makes his streams and veiwers more interested or just investigating them may led to more problems so, that is why they did it.

Gaijin wouldn't do it to be spiteful, they like their games being shown off and being popular just not with issues or work around or even mods to give an advantage

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The reason it's not fair is because gaijin wanted to abuse youtube's copyright strike system (which is broken anyway) to censor people. The outrage has little to do with people liking phly (a good many don't, especially in the Reddit community) and everything to do with unfairly censoring content creators.

censored content-from a legal perspective,it is applied thusly. 1-Did you sign a contract,stating that any/all applications of said service provided *a game* are the control of the provider,used at their discretion by said provider,and that they control all release rights of same?Yes?You're in violation of that order,take it down
2-Did you,the user,engage in a activity which may be financially crippling/deprive provider of income/property/status in engaging in said action?Yes?You're in violation

That's just the two main points. This argument in no way faults either Gaijin/PhlyDaily in any way. It merely shows that the legal side has been violated,regardless of the reasons,by the user. Period.End of story. No matter that they cannot/will not/do not do anything to fix the "problem' shown in the video. "Though blutkinds 411 shows this is not the case'. Phly made a decision knowing it would engage Gaijin in a no-holds barred fight to the death regarding this.

The ONLY rebuttal worth anything "legally speaking' is that Phly takes Gaijin to court for providing a service not living up to the standards/practices that it offers,including requiring ALL players to follow the CoC and engage those whom aren't with speed,decisiveness,and the same punishment across the board.This is incredibly expensive,as well as long/drawn out.Furthermore, it would be complicated by the fact that this is still in "Beta' that is,development,and would not have the same legal rules applied. The outcome "as I see it" would be protracted litigation to either A)Gaijin agrees to implement,immediately,a system that patrols/scans/engages/fixes said hacks immediately "Control Center Gaijin-You've been detected using a unauthorized assist.Your account is suspended pending investigation.The outcome will be relayed to You by email w/in several days.Thereby taking the game OUT of beta,into full-game status,in which case Gaijin would pull the game as it would be a precedent for ALL games in beta to be viewed by this.
B)-The CoC for all games would be viewed as sacrosanct by the court "Unimpeachable. You CHOSE to play the game.Caveat Emptor!!

The end result is Phly felt put in a corner,He swung,was countered,and now both fighters are on their stools in the corner,awaiting the "Game emperors' decision regarding the outcome of the fight. I suspect it'll be a "No decision/Draw' and that Phly will return to Gaijins good graces,Gaijin will implement a program that does this,thereby messing up something else,pissing off 1000's of people,yet somehow We'll all still play the damn game.


Ty as well to Blutkind for taking the time/effort to let us "In' in a lil bit of Gaijin's thinking/operations/and foresight into their upcoming fixes.

Ty to BmBmStick for posting the CoC reminding people WE AINT SCRUBS/WERE AOD FOOLS..hacksNAW...We just play the objective with a eye towards winning!I've been B.Rubble and YOU'VE been one hell of a audience. Please pick up Your commemorative sticker "I saw Rubble type and it was amazing' as well as Your t-shirt/balloon/and AOD Condoms..they're stealth condoms..They'll never see you...waaaaaaiiit for it.....coming! :rocketwhore:

I don't know if this is happening a lot, but I see people, mostly people who are really new to the game, call hacks on another person because they were killed by a shot that went through a building in a map like Tunisia, the Second Battle of El Alamein, Frozen Pass, where it's completely normal for the shot to go through like there's nothing there. My concern is that these newer people might use the in-gme report feature for something that's completely reasonable, and if the automatic ban while account is under investigation feature is implemented, then there could be a decrease in the numbers of players in the game.

This thought is nowhere near fully developed, and I think I have an idea of what I'm trying to say, but I just haven't phrased it right.

And B.Rubble I could you send me a PM on what the legal distinction between a game in beta and a full-game are?

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Originally Posted by AOD_Lt_FellaWhite

I don't know if this is happening a lot, but I see people, mostly people who are really new to the game, call hacks on another person because they were killed by a shot that went through a building in a map like Tunisia, the Second Battle of El Alamein, Frozen Pass, where it's completely normal for the shot to go through like there's nothing there. My concern is that these newer people might use the in-gme report feature for something that's completely reasonable, and if the automatic ban while account is under investigation feature is implemented, then there could be a decrease in the numbers of players in the game.

This thought is nowhere near fully developed, and I think I have an idea of what I'm trying to say, but I just haven't phrased it right.

It is viewed the same as "experimental' aircraft, "CustomBuilt' cars,etc. They are required to live up to certain standards *airworthiness,road safety,game stability,fair marketplace value for games* and thus,certain rules/laws are not applicable. For instance. With certain "Diamond status' credit cards,they are not offered the same services for fraud protection as regular card users!#1-the cards are ltd edition,therefore not offered in the #'s required by the issuers insurance.FDIC Laws require all cards OVER a certain # of issuances,to be covered,however NOT the ltd editions for people with a large income"..make sense?Legal precedent,though case # escapes Me.

the point is. Things that are in "Testing' are not SUPPOSED to do "everything' correctly,all the time.Ergo-TESTING/BETA/LTD EDITION..etc. ANY complaint by a user/end user can be covered under the CoC/EULA/Contract signed or e-signed under the "duh,beta' ruling. It's a rule of law designed to protect companies from excess litigation related to minor issues,to be expected in not-ready for prime time devices,products,services,etc et al,inclusive but not limited to....lol

However...Social Media has TOTALLY changed that as evidenced above w/Phly vs Gaijin. They now HAVE to fix the known issue, and provide a evidence thereof,to safe themselves against further accusations,evidence proven of.Even if they DID take down another video posted in 3mos showing they've done nothing *for arguments sake* the argument by Phly/New video provider would be that the over-bearing rules enforced by the provider prevent free speech,and in fact,free market knowledge and fraud protection *For offering a service they don't provdie/that is-stable game w/fixes quickly as its beta*. Be interested to see Gaijin's response to Phly in it's finality,as well as their in-game response to the available hacks/fixes.

I am NOT a lawyer,merely a semi-knowledgable person.I've been wrong before and may be here/above.it is how I see it and that alone. Please feel free to check w/Your lawyer,legal counsel.


"I don't want feelings dammit....I want tacos'

And B.Rubble I could you send me a PM on what the legal distinction between a game in beta and a full-game are?

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I actually just read the EULA which I don't think I did when I first downloaded the game (either that or I wasn't paying attention when I did) and I personally do not believe that the contract put forth by Gaijin is overbearing in any way.

I was going to write a really long post explaining how Gaijin technically would be able to remove Phly's videos because of copyright infringement since the EULA states that the game is the intellectual property of Gaijin. I was then going to go into how posting videos to Youtube does not violate the EULA as long as nothing to violate it is being shown, which it was in Phly's case. But I'm not just because it is way too much work for me right now. :wink1:

As we can all see from the number of replies this thread has got already it is a hot subject, it is always going to be a hot subject for any online game.

From personal experience taking a hard line on Hacks of any description - no matter their 'proclaimed' intent - is essential. Most of us will have at least heard of the Command and Conquer franchise, one of the original online versions of that game is called Tiberium alliances. I have been playing that game since it's Beta 1 server day's and remember clearly the chain of events that unfurled themselves on that game.

Denied - "It's impossible to hack our servers in this way the game is not local to your system and thus cannot be influenced as people are claiming" - Already seen posts like that from Gajin
Rebuttal - "Anybody found guilty of use will be banned" - Yep seen that too
Begrudged acceptance - "We cannot consent to the use of the known 'in-browser user tools' for the game and believe they subtract from your game" - I think we are getting to this point already
Tolerated - " " - All comments from the devs simply stopped
Accepted - "Developers of 'reasonable' tools to enhance the game may register and have access to a 'Wrapper' to enable proper development" - I am not willing to see this happen again
Supportive - "Developers of scripted tools for our software need to use our wrapper which can be downloaded from here - link - and then register the tool when released to the public" - Things got pretty sh't at that time
Stealing from tool devs - "Some of the many enhancements developed independently for our games will be incorporated into the next update" - and we thought the game crashed a lot before they started doing that, soon became almost unplayable
Today the game is such that if you don't have at least 1 set of tools installed, including a combat simulator so you can work out the results before you attack and a base scanner so you can reliably find layouts for you next bases, you are sure to never get out of the starting blocks. The game will crash at least once every day you log in, and with each account that you log in. And things are so bad that a die hard 'old timer' from the early day's like myself is left with the choice of 'use cheats' or f'off out of a game I have always loved. Still putting up with it at the moment, but not sure how much longer that will be for.

Is that what Gajin wants to happen to their pet project, do they want to see it taken over by 'Independent developers enhancements' as Electronic Arts put it? I very much doubt they do, and I sympathize with them for having their work destroyed and their good name brought into disrepute. Players of their games are firmly laying the blame at the developers door instead of that of their friends that do 'a little codding on the side'.

I know I don't - I blame those that think it's OK to create such things as these hacks, they need to remember that in most of the world hacking is illegal and that what they are doing is hacking.

You can probably guess that I could rant and rage about hackers destroying the fun for everybody all night long, but you wouldn't want to read all the expletives.

Foot note.

If you are one of those 'coders' that like to experiment with back-doors in games you play - Get the F out of WT!!!