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Thread: P-51 Fix/buff

  1. #1
    If I'm not back in 5....wait longer! AOD Member AOD_BaronVonDelta's Avatar
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    America P-51 Fix/buff

    Those who have flown the P-51 will know how painful it can be, with the 50 cals nerfed yet again and the sideclimbing to attain the same altitude that can be reached and surpassed by everything it will face. But it's not really the fault of the P-51, it was built specifically for bomber escort. It was never meant to climb as fast as say German interceptors, which did need to climb to reach bomber formations. (This applies to other American aircraft too, but thats a discussion for later) You have other aircraft like the P-38s and P-47s which are given air spawn, and they are the difference for allied team because they dont need to spend half the battle getting to alt while their team loses.

    To make the P-51 more viable/actually enjoyable to use, I think giving an interceptor spawn like what they did to the P-61 would really help. And I know this one is a stretch, but allow the P-51s to spawn with the heavy bombers for escort. This could be furthered by adding a new reward system where getting a kill withing a kilometer of a friendly Heavy bomber will give extra SL and RP, but I think this would mainly benefit American and British Heavy Bombers as other nations have other ways of fending for themselves (German Bombers after the 111s and FW 200 have the speed advantage, Russian heavies are Russian, Japanese bombers are bristling with cannons) and with this players will have an intensive to protect their heavies, allowing the Bombers to have their adamantium armor taken away.

    Now you could say that people might try and abuse this, but this is why I dont think that will happen.
    1. Starting at 4km up means you already have plenty of alt, and climbing further is just wasting your time.
    2. Extra reward is very enticing for those that love to get as much RP as possible, and the 1km range requirement means they won't be straying far as long as they want the reward.
    3. Going ahead of the bomber formation and attacking German fighters is another one of the things P-51s partook in, they would attempt to break up German formations to disrupt their attempts to intercept the bombers. And besides, this 4km air spawn will only be given if the team has B-17s (Possibly make it so it only allows the spawn if its 4 B-17s, and in this case it would be even more reasonable to give the spawn because the Americans are already down 4 fighters in this scenario)

    Let me know what you think about this, and how this could change the Bomber meta.

  2. #2
    May or may not be indecisive AOD Member AOD_zachtac's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by AOD_BaronVonDelta View Post
    Those who have flown the P-51 will know how painful it can be, with the 50 cals nerfed yet again and the sideclimbing to attain the same altitude that can be reached and surpassed by everything it will face. But it's not really the fault of the P-51, it was built specifically for bomber escort. It was never meant to climb as fast as say German interceptors, which did need to climb to reach bomber formations. (This applies to other American aircraft too, but thats a discussion for later) You have other aircraft like the P-38s and P-47s which are given air spawn, and they are the difference for allied team because they dont need to spend half the battle getting to alt while their team loses.

    To make the P-51 more viable/actually enjoyable to use, I think giving an interceptor spawn like what they did to the P-61 would really help. And I know this one is a stretch, but allow the P-51s to spawn with the heavy bombers for escort. This could be furthered by adding a new reward system where getting a kill withing a kilometer of a friendly Heavy bomber will give extra SL and RP, but I think this would mainly benefit American and British Heavy Bombers as other nations have other ways of fending for themselves (German Bombers after the 111s and FW 200 have the speed advantage, Russian heavies are Russian, Japanese bombers are bristling with cannons) and with this players will have an intensive to protect their heavies, allowing the Bombers to have their adamantium armor taken away.

    Now you could say that people might try and abuse this, but this is why I dont think that will happen.
    1. Starting at 4km up means you already have plenty of alt, and climbing further is just wasting your time.
    2. Extra reward is very enticing for those that love to get as much RP as possible, and the 1km range requirement means they won't be straying far as long as they want the reward.
    3. Going ahead of the bomber formation and attacking German fighters is another one of the things P-51s partook in, they would attempt to break up German formations to disrupt their attempts to intercept the bombers. And besides, this 4km air spawn will only be given if the team has B-17s (Possibly make it so it only allows the spawn if its 4 B-17s, and in this case it would be even more reasonable to give the spawn because the Americans are already down 4 fighters in this scenario)

    Let me know what you think about this, and how this could change the Bomber meta.
    Hmm, so i'm 90 percent sure your talking about realistic battles, and I think it would make sense in theory I just doubt that Gajiin would ever let any logic like that see the light of day, mostly because I think the really put focus on individuals as opposed to teamwork and accurate tactics and usage in battles. The scenarios your describing actually took place and therefore make sense, but in war thunder its basically opposite land lol. I don't know I guess its nice to dream but I don't think it would happen.
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  3. #3
    Save your breath. You'll need it to blow up your date! AOD Member AOD_B.Rubble's Avatar
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    Baron,GREAT idea,however #3 will prove the downfall...

    The reason this tactic worked was the Ger. fighters didn't have the fuel to chase/dogfight. They usually had enough for one/two passes once they climbed/found the bombers,then had to RTB.Hence "Wave's' of attackers would BnZ. Usually lead/wingman on run #1,then the rest of the flight in pairs of two's from opposite directions.In WT fuel isn't a issue *in Arcade* however in Realistic/Sim that would be the SHIZ.I DO like the idea of bomber spawn for P51's on teams w/B17s,etc. Good call!
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  4. #4
    "The deadliest weapon in the world is a Marine and his rifle!" General John J. AOD Member AOD_GoldenPredator's Avatar
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    well it was actually designed as a ground attack export plane for the British, not a bomber export, eventually, its success made the U.S. interested and that's how we got the A-36 apache. Then someone decided to put a merlin engine in it for high altitude and it worked well, so they modified it, giving you the P-51 mustang. however it underwent many modifications, was given extra fuel tanks, and the teardrop canopy to make it effective as a bomber escourt.

    To address your idea, realistic does not have enough players, the players work individually for the most part, and the goals for a match would do not currently support what you want to do. Also you have to remember this is a game so realism had to be sacrifieced for balance in game, even though gaijin is not very good at that *cough* br system *cough*. I have flown the mustang and it does quite well in my opinion, and sideclimbing is just a given for U.S. planes. It would be nice to have an air spawn and reward players for escourting bombers, but that is too much work for Gaijin, they wont do it, at least not soon, there are some historical events on the weekends that kinda integrate this. try spading it if you havent already, and remember to use flaps because with them it can actually be played as a decent turnfighter, but dont expect to out turn zeros and spits.

  5. #5
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    Quote Originally Posted by AOD_GoldenPredator View Post
    well it was actually designed as a ground attack export plane for the British, not a bomber export, eventually, its success made the U.S. interested and that's how we got the A-36 apache. Then someone decided to put a merlin engine in it for high altitude and it worked well, so they modified it, giving you the P-51 mustang. however it underwent many modifications, was given extra fuel tanks, and the teardrop canopy to make it effective as a bomber escourt.
    Pretty damn close.

    The P-51 started off as a contract bid for the UK. It was a pretty good plane, except that it was an Alison Engine with only 1 supercharger stage. So basically at the time, it was the best plane up to about 14K feet. But planes, at that time, had "graduated" beyond 14k feet.

    Because of this, the British upgrade their version of the P-51 (the Mustang Mark 1) with 20mm's becoming the Mustang Mark1A, and America developed the P-51A (without 20mm's) for use mostly with the Flying Tigers, the mercenary group fighting the Japanese in China, as well as develop the A-36, a ground attack variant. Using the same engine, it was a gigantic boost in performance over the P-40 they were using.

    North American Aviation took it one step further, streamlined the fuselage, and gave it laminar flow wings. Basically, they made it as low drag as possible (at the time). With this low drag, and increase in fuel reserves, the P-51B with a merlin engine (that was used in the Spitfires of that era) was able to easily double the range of other fighters (or more) for the same amount of fuel. So they took the P-51B, altered the engine slightly so that it performed slightly better at lower altitudes, gave it a bubble canopy and an extra set of guns, and got the P-51D.

    All during this development, they had investigated making the P-51 even lower drag, with more power. Basically inventing a "interceptor" P-51. They got the P-51H, which was a marvel of a plane. The P-51H was actually built in decent numbers, but along with several other USA planes, they were held back for the invasion of Japan. But as you and I know, the invasion of Japan never happened, and the P-51H never saw combat.

  6. #6
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    Quote Originally Posted by AOD_GoldenPredator View Post
    the players work individually for the most part.
    That's just the whole damn problem in this game....
    its bases on teamplay but players are all going lonewolf all the time wondering why they keep losing
    if gaijin would allow bigger squads then they would dominate every round.

    remember the time when it was still possible to get 3 squads in the same match ..:) ?

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  7. #7
    If you can't find the enemy, they're behind you. AOD Member AOD_Silkmonger's Avatar
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    It has taken a long time, much heartache, and a some eagles, to get a bomber crew that can shoot back skillfully. They still will not do so automatically until an enemy is near ramming my plane. This last few months are the first I've been able to fly my US heavy bombers and have any real hope of surviving even a 1-1 fight with an enemy fighter. I have also flown fighters and shot down bombers. I think they have a decent balance going, just now. They may need to do something different with the P51 (the air start sounded like a good idea) but I do not see where taking the bombers back to "just-shoot-me" again is going to help in any way but stem the number of bombers flying.


 

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