Spawn Camping: Fix it

Everyone who plays any form of Tank Battle will know how frustrating it would be (and still is) to be one of the last alive on the team with the entire enemy team sitting in the middle of your spawn, especially in RB and SB where by this time you only have SPAA. Recently Gaijin has attempted to address this by adding a few seconds where you are invulnerable if you stay where you spawn. But often times there is little that can be accomplished in this small window before you are brought down, especially if they have positioned themselves all around the spawn. I remember there being a mode (not sure if it's still around) where capturing a zone near the enemy spawn would shift where they would spawn in, and those who pushed to the old spawn after this would find themselves encircled. I would suggest something similar, where if a large number of enemies reached the spawn zone or captured a certain objective, the spawn point would shift to either a different part of the map or further back into an area that was out of bounds for the enemy team. Perhaps there should also be AI reinforcements that come to support the team being spawn camped. What changes do you think would fix this?

Spawn camping is the bane of any gaming in which "Spawning' is used in-game play. It shows a lack of ability to fight, a cowardice unparalleled,and is lacking in reasoning. It is My firm belief that ALL spawn campers,in ANY game,should be punished,most severely, for any spawn camping penalty. In My servers for CS/CS:S if You spawn camped You got ONE warning. 2nd time,1wk server restriction/no entry.3rd time,reported to VAC and banned from server. VAC often tagged those players "problem' and changed their VAC rating so as to make it near impossible to get into anything other than a custom match.

I don't tank,and won't pretend to understand the vagaries of spawn camping in that mode.However,it wouldn't be hard for Gaijin to institute a "Death by spawn camping" penalty. 5seconds in enemy spawn?You just had a catastrophic failure of Your entire engine!You're dead in the water,guns disabled,in enemy spawn....2nd offense just costs You the vehicle.5 seconds/ur shit blows up.3rd offense,Your team loses.Yep.THE WHOLE TEAM. Everyone on the team of the camper loses.Match goes to the other team,back to the que for another match. Done/Over/Finished.
Same with planes. Spawn camp 1st time/Your guns fail until You land/repair or are shot down,no "auto-repair" of weapons. 2nd time?Your plane blows up. 3rd time?Match lost for that team,other team gets win,back to que.

in the meantime.It may seem like it does nothing,but I report every spawn camper I see for passive play,and in the comments I write "cowardice has no place in this game'. Does it help?Well....I don't see those people camping much in other matches. Even the 100clan has learned their lesson,as a whole. They still camp,but VERY infrequently,and never a whole squad at a time. Amazing what happens when Your entire clan is known,world-wide for being a worthless P.O.S. set of players...You stop doing that right?lol. Anyhow,that's My 2.50c

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Originally Posted by AOD_B.Rubble

Spawn camping is the bane of any gaming in which "Spawning' is used in-game play. It shows a lack of ability to fight, a cowardice unparalleled,and is lacking in reasoning. It is My firm belief that ALL spawn campers,in ANY game,should be punished,most severely, for any spawn camping penalty. In My servers for CS/CS:S if You spawn camped You got ONE warning. 2nd time,1wk server restriction/no entry.3rd time,reported to VAC and banned from server. VAC often tagged those players "problem' and changed their VAC rating so as to make it near impossible to get into anything other than a custom match.

I don't tank,and won't pretend to understand the vagaries of spawn camping in that mode.However,it wouldn't be hard for Gaijin to institute a "Death by spawn camping" penalty. 5seconds in enemy spawn?You just had a catastrophic failure of Your entire engine!You're dead in the water,guns disabled,in enemy spawn....2nd offense just costs You the vehicle.5 seconds/ur shit blows up.3rd offense,Your team loses.Yep.THE WHOLE TEAM. Everyone on the team of the camper loses.Match goes to the other team,back to the que for another match. Done/Over/Finished.
Same with planes. Spawn camp 1st time/Your guns fail until You land/repair or are shot down,no "auto-repair" of weapons. 2nd time?Your plane blows up. 3rd time?Match lost for that team,other team gets win,back to que.

in the meantime.It may seem like it does nothing,but I report every spawn camper I see for passive play,and in the comments I write "cowardice has no place in this game'. Does it help?Well....I don't see those people camping much in other matches. Even the 100clan has learned their lesson,as a whole. They still camp,but VERY infrequently,and never a whole squad at a time. Amazing what happens when Your entire clan is known,world-wide for being a worthless P.O.S. set of players...You stop doing that right?lol. Anyhow,that's My 2.50c

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Hey Buddy, I do agree, tanks are a special case though because of the slow speeds and basic nature of GF game play,
but how would you define spawn camping in air battles? I mean, you know, that at 300 to 500kph you really
can't camp. It's more like lurking. The fast and mobile nature of air battles means that even if you're not deliberatly camping, it is
entirely possible to find yourself on the red side of the map without realizing it. If I don't check my map periodically, I know when
I'm on the other side from increased ground fire and I try to get the eff out of there, but, if a plane spawns close to me, what am I supposed to do? Do I take the shot or let him go. It's a tough question. I don't want to lose my plane just because I crossed an invisible boundry
without any intention to camp. In GF camping is more obvious. A parked tank aiming at the pawn point. In AF, it's much more ambigious.
The difference between murder and involuntary manslaughter is intent.

There isn't really an issue with spawn camping in AF. I was referring specifically to GF, as spawn camping is much more prominent in it.

:pat:

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Originally Posted by AOD_rayrayblues

Hey Buddy, I do agree, tanks are a special case though because of the slow speeds and basic nature of GF game play,
but how would you define spawn camping in air battles? I mean, you know, that at 300 to 500kph you really
can't camp. It's more like lurking. The fast and mobile nature of air battles means that even if you're not deliberatly camping, it is
entirely possible to find yourself on the red side of the map without realizing it. If I don't check my map periodically, I know when
I'm on the other side from increased ground fire and I try to get the eff out of there, but, if a plane spawns close to me, what am I supposed to do? Do I take the shot or let him go. It's a tough question. I don't want to lose my plane just because I crossed an invisible boundry
without any intention to camp. In GF camping is more obvious. A parked tank aiming at the pawn point. In AF, it's much more ambigious.
The difference between murder and involuntary manslaughter is intent.

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Situational awareness,ftw. Tactics play a large part in winning this game,tanks or airplanes both. In the air,spawn camping is possible,though calling it lurking is the same idea. You're posted up,in the enemies spawn,killing people as they spawn in. Let's not argue over the meaning of a word,the point is the same.

IF you cannot keep Your "Head in the game' and realize WHERE on the map You are,perhaps a few deaths would fix that. Learn to keep Your eye on the mini-map,and recognize Your location. There is NO excuse for it. Now,don't get Me wrong. Warnings can/should be issued.Big red letters with a countdown "You are in Spawn. 5,4,3,2,1-Dead' If you're diving down and carrying too much speed,then learn...Seriously.There is NO reason for it. Period. In EITHER game mode. The only reason I can see Gaijin not fixing it is loss of money due to players buying their way in,then spawn camping. Might even go so far as to say You lose the plane you camped with after 3rd time.Yep. All the mods,plane ownership,etc. Have to grind it out again. See,the penalty is what keeps people from doing it. Once they know it will cost not only them,But their team if they continue to do so,then either those players will "play' themselves out via violations,or learn after being reported by 14/16 people for everyone on their team losing the match due to camping,that cowardice and lack of awareness are deadly in this game,then they'll learn to not do it.Be intriguing to see the number of "Clans' who advocate this who either quit the game,or drop 20pts or more on rankings due to not being able to win w/out camping.

That being said,I respect everyones opinions and thoughts,however on THIS I am steadfast and unmoving. Spawn camping is cowardice and lack of skills,simply put. If You're THAT good,go fight with the rest of the team.Otherwise,go back to Minecraft or some such


rant over
*Gets off soapbox, pulls up collar of overcoat and walks into the mists of the interwebz in a cloud of pot smoke and maniacal laughter...* BWAAAAHAHAHAHHHAAHHAcoughchokewheezeAAAHHAHHAHHAHH HApukehurlcoughgasp wheeeeeeeeeeeeee*

The biggest problem with spawn camping for ground vehicles is that many vehicles can be sat quite legitimately in the main battle area with a clear view into the enemies spawn as well as across much of the battle. When you are sat in such a situation you sometimes don't even realise that you have just killed a spawn until somebody complains and then it's too late.

Camps need to be 'in accessible' to enemies, if you can't see into a camp you can't kill the occupants, but the occupants need to be forced to come out to play and as they do they will still be vulnerable to campers on the exit routes. So how do you stop that happening? Somebody somewhere will always be a total 'f turd' and camp deliberately - so maybe a simple 'I was spawn camped button' in the hanger when you are killed you can click it and the game runs an algorithm or something to see if it's a case to be answered and if so the offender dies and cannot return to the game - loosing all research and xp gained for that battle. Could something of this nature be workable? I don't know, but what ever measures are taken to stop people from being able to camp somebody will find a way to get away with it!.

There is no “fix“ for spawncamping. If you get spaencamped its your/your teams fault because you/your team didn't hold all flanks equaly so the enemy could push one weak and kill all in the overcrowded middle and then spawncamp. (Tank wise)

Send from my P8 via WiFi

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Originally Posted by AOD_BaronVonDelta

Everyone who plays any form of Tank Battle will know how frustrating it would be (and still is) to be one of the last alive on the team with the entire enemy team sitting in the middle of your spawn, especially in RB and SB where by this time you only have SPAA. Recently Gaijin has attempted to address this by adding a few seconds where you are invulnerable if you stay where you spawn. But often times there is little that can be accomplished in this small window before you are brought down, especially if they have positioned themselves all around the spawn. I remember there being a mode (not sure if it's still around) where capturing a zone near the enemy spawn would shift where they would spawn in, and those who pushed to the old spawn after this would find themselves encircled. I would suggest something similar, where if a large number of enemies reached the spawn zone or captured a certain objective, the spawn point would shift to either a different part of the map or further back into an area that was out of bounds for the enemy team. Perhaps there should also be AI reinforcements that come to support the team being spawn camped. What changes do you think would fix this?

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In this case why bother spawning back in your the last and the enemy is in your spawn you lost go back to hanger there is no shame in admitting defeat in this case dont complain about spawnkilling,
I do agree that spawnkilling is no fun at all and should be fixed, it is scaring a lot of new players away from this game,
leaving us only the trols, bullies and spawnkillers and they will leave as last player because there is no one left that playes this game
another good game killed by these trolls only Gaijin don't seem to see this

I agree Spawn Camping if the worst part of this game. If I leave WT at some point it will be due to Spawn Camping. I have an easy fix for airplanes thought.

If there is an enemy within a certain distance of the spawn and within 1k of the minimum normal spawn height then all new spawns come in a 2k above the height of the highest enemy combatant in game not just spawn zone. Once the enemy is eliminated all spawns go back to stock.

This is a 2 fold penalty one it puts the entire opposing team at lower altitude cause the opposing team to put pressure on the spawn camper. It also put people out of immediate danger of the spawn camper.

For tanks they should just make it so if you are in enemy spawn you speed and maneuverability if reduced by 50% and your guns cannot fire. That would ensure you stay out of that zone.

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Originally Posted by AOD_The_King_Ducky

I agree Spawn Camping if the worst part of this game. If I leave WT at some point it will be due to Spawn Camping. I have an easy fix for airplanes thought.

If there is an enemy within a certain distance of the spawn and within 1k of the minimum normal spawn height then all new spawns come in a 2k above the height of the highest enemy combatant in game not just spawn zone. Once the enemy is eliminated all spawns go back to stock.

This is a 2 fold penalty one it puts the entire opposing team at lower altitude cause the opposing team to put pressure on the spawn camper. It also put people out of immediate danger of the spawn camper.

For tanks they should just make it so if you are in enemy spawn you speed and maneuverability if reduced by 50% and your guns cannot fire. That would ensure you stay out of that zone.

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That would give one team a very unfair adventage.
In planes you always can try to kill the enemy in a Head-on.
In tanks as metioned above it's your own fault when the enemy gets into your spawn.

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Originally Posted by AOD_Schtreusel

That would give one team a very unfair adventage.
In planes you always can try to kill the enemy in a Head-on.
In tanks as metioned above it's your own fault when the enemy gets into your spawn.

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That is the whole point! If you don't want the other team to have the advantage stay out of the spawn. If would also cause team pressure to keep you team out of the spawn.

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Originally Posted by AOD_Schtreusel

That would give one team a very unfair adventage.
In planes you always can try to kill the enemy in a Head-on.
In tanks as metioned above it's your own fault when the enemy gets into your spawn.

Send from my P8 via WiFi

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Bullshit the plane in your spawn is most likely higher and has more speed then a plane just spawned in
for the head-on ..Hell no if that spawnkiller is a german or something with a lot of fire power your dead b4 you know it, giving the enemy another free kill ???? HELL NO
in tanks your own fault ???? now dont give me that bullshit
we all know that everybody in your team will speed out the spawn leaving it with no defends.
so I have to defend it ? all alone ??? so who is gonna cap ?? sry but I dont rely on bleuberry's to do it, because most of the time they just don't do it
and i cant do it all by myself so dont give me the "its your own fault" bullshitt that will only work if there was some real teamplay from the bleuberry's ....yeah right...

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Originally Posted by AOD_BoomBoomStick

Bullshit the plane in your spawn is most likely higher and has more speed then a plane just spawned in
for the head-on ..Hell no if that spawnkiller is a german or something with a lot of fire power your dead b4 you know it, giving the enemy another free kill ???? HELL NO
in tanks your own fault ???? now dont give me that bullshit
we all know that everybody in your team will speed out the spawn leaving it with no defends.
so I have to defend it ? all alone ??? so who is gonna cap ?? sry but I dont rely on bleuberry's to do it, because most of the time they just don't do it
and i cant do it all by myself so dont give me the "its your own fault" bullshitt that will only work if there was some real teamplay from the bleuberry's ....yeah right...

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I'm not saying it's only your fault. Bit it's your teams organizing fault because they didn't “read“ the match correctly or not at all. And for the planes most enemys are dumb enough to go into a headon with all advendages on their side if they don't go for a headon you better be diving and fight the low targets.

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Originally Posted by AOD_The_King_Ducky

That is the whole point! If you don't want the other team to have the advantage stay out of the spawn. If would also cause team pressure to keep you team out of the spawn.

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1. Spawncamping is a valid tactic
2. That would open Trolls many ways to do Bullshit.

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Originally Posted by AOD_BoomBoomStick

Bullshit the plane in your spawn is most likely higher and has more speed then a plane just spawned in
for the head-on ..Hell no if that spawnkiller is a german or something with a lot of fire power your dead b4 you know it, giving the enemy another free kill ???? HELL NO

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In Squadron Arcade Events spawn camps are a very common thing, so here is my experience how to deal with it efficiently:
- entering a shallow dive right after spawning is usually good thing to do. The kinetic energy one builds up that way is nice to have. It'll also grant you some extra time to assess the situation.
- try to intercept spawncampers which are reachable and seem to be occupied and hence distracted.
- if someone dives on you, dive as well. If possible keep the spawncamper interested in you by maintaining a distance of roughly 1 km - far enough to evade shots, close enough to lure your enemy into believing he might get you if he just commits a little longer. The goal here is to try dragging your target down. Below your spawn or low enough for an ally to intercept.
- In SAEs I often choose a plane with a lot of Dakka and good high speed maneuverbility (e.g. Fw 190 As). With those I think it to be viable to force vertical head-ons. The odds to die are fairly high, but more often than not I'm able to take down someone with me. In random arcade battles I personally refrain from this tactic though, as I prefer to play fairly conservatively in those matches.
- if noone tails you continue your shallow dive and either play the objective or start climbing yourself again once you've gained some distance to the campers.
- Another thing I like to do is teasing enemies to attack myself, by flying roughly 1.5 km - 2 km below them with a fast plane with already fairly high speed (gained during the initial shallow dive). If they attack simply match their maneuver, dive away and drag them down.

Either way the odds are stacked in favor of the spawn campers. It's entirely up to them to initiate engagements and they've got a fairly easy time to pull off solid evasive maneuvers due to their energy advantage. You can only react on their maneuvers or ignore the spawn campers by diving away.

The worst thing one can do when getting spawn camped is climbing after spawning in, as trading in the little kinetic energy you've got for potential energy will prevent you from pulling off any defensive maneuvers, which will leave you as a very easy target.

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Originally Posted by AOD_Schtreusel

1. Spawncamping is a valid tactic

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Isn't that against the first rule of AOD's CoC??

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Originally Posted by AOD_Roeffel

Isn't that against the first rule of AOD's CoC??

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From Gaijins side. Of course its against the CoC so we don't use it.

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Ah yeah ok, I was confused there for a sec
I still hope Gaijin works on solutions against spawncamping, especially in random battles where teamplay isn't realy a thing in general

I would like to put pillboxes behind each spawn that are indestructible. You come over the ridge or what not to spawncamp, and these pillboxes open fire on you with MG's. Keep coming and they start firing HE (and likely hitting!) Still come on and they fire AP rounds. The gun size would vary by BR, but be able to pen anything at that BR. Want to spawn-camp? You still can, but it won't be for long, and it likely won't gain you much by way of points.

Now, this could still result in a team charging in at the same time. (too many targets for the pillboxes to kill them all) but instead of camping in a circle around the spawn, they would be coming in-and-out of LOS at the front of the spawn, with maybe the spawning players having a go at "wack-a-tank".