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  1. #1
    Banned from Forums RTMPro's Avatar
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    Protip ARCADE - Average Battle Rating System

    Hello,

    For those of you who are unaware, War Thunder uses a battle rating system. When you play arcade, there is an AVERAGE battle rating system. Please read the below for enlightenment on this subject. Hopefully, this will stop bickering/arguing on TS about, "What you're flying."


    BATTLE RATINGS SYSTEM
    The matchmaking system in the War Thunder uses
    the Battle Rating system as of version 1.45 to group
    players into matches, and it is important to plan your
    lineup around it so that you are not fighting planes
    with vastly superior capabilities compared to yours.

    Each plane has its own Battle Rating (BR) to
    indicate its effectiveness in battle and appears
    in steps of 0.33, thus the sequence of BR
    appears as 1.0 (lowest), 1.3, 1.7, 2.0, 2.3 and
    so on (rounded off) all the way up to 9.0.

    For arcade air battles, the weighted average of the
    top 3 BR values of your planes is used to calculate
    the player’s BR. The formula is: Player BR = A x 0.5
    + B x 0.25 + C x 0.25, rounded off to the nearest .3, .7 or
    .0, with A, B and C representing the top 3 planes’
    BR in descending order (with A being the highest).
    Players are matched up with other players with a
    maximum difference of 1.0 in their player’s BR.


    There is, however, a cap for the difference
    in BR of the top 3 aircraft. If the difference is
    2 steps (BR value difference of 0.6 or 0.7) or
    more, the player’s BR will simply be (A – 0.33)
    rounded off, with A being the highest BR. This is
    to prevent players from bringing in planes with
    extremely high BR into a battle by supplementing
    the lineup with planes of much lower BR.

    What does this all mean? As planes in the
    Tech Tree are not arranged according to BR,
    some planes at lower tiers might actually have
    very high BR due to their effectiveness. Bringing
    such aircraft causes you to be matched against
    much stronger planes, and you might not have
    planes in your lineup good enough to fight in
    those battles once that top-of-the-line aircraft is
    destroyed. It sometimes may be tempting to bring
    a shiny new aircraft you’ve just researched into
    the next battle, but it can be unwise to do so.
    This is a big problem that new players always face,
    as the inner workings of BR and matchmaking are
    not explained clearly right at the start. Newer players
    often get frustrated when being matched up against
    far superior planes that they can’t handle with
    their mostly reserve lineup when they inadvertently
    bring themselves into a higher BR match.

    For example, putting the new PBY-5 Catalina
    (BR2.0) you have researched into your lineup (which
    is actually the default option the game picks for
    you) with P-26 Peashooter reserve planes only
    (BR1.0) could actually set you up with battles with
    much better planes, as the PBY-5 would raise the
    player BR significantly. There is a chance that the
    matchmaker may match the player up against
    players with better planes like the F4F-3 (2.3BR),
    A-20G (BR2.7) and P-40 (BR2.7) because of the BR1.0
    range when finding players for matchmaking.

    The planes more suitable to supplement the
    P-26A Peashooter in the lineups would probably
    be the OS2U-1 Kingfisher (and the OS2U-3 as
    well) and the F2A-1 planes, which are all at
    1.3BR, much closer to the P-26 Peashooters.

    Eventually, the player would have to move
    on to using planes with a higher BR. To utilise
    the PBY-5 Catalina, the most effective way is to
    supplement the lineup with better planes such
    as the P-36A (BR1.7), P-36C (BR2.0) and SBD-3
    (BR2.0) which are closer to it, providing a more
    credible counter to the planes it can potentially face.
    (Note: These values are accurate as of Dec 2014)

    Therefore, a good way is to research a few new
    planes (at least 3) of similar BR before bringing
    them into battle all in one go, with your older
    aircraft as a form of reserve. When it comes to
    researching new planes, instead of choosing the
    most mean-looking fighter (with a ridiculously
    high BR) you can lay your hands on, choose one
    that allows your lineup to gradually increase its BR
    without facing significantly more difficult foes.






    In layman's terms, you join a channel & they say, "We're flying 6.0, do you want in?"

    "Ok, let me get my lineup set."
    Lineup:
    P-51D-30 (BR 5.0)
    F8F-1 (BR 5.0)
    F8F-1B (BR 6.3) (A)
    B-17G (BR 6.0) (B)
    FW 190 A-8 (BR 5.7) (C)

    "Hang on! We're flying 6.0, you can't bring your 6.3 Bearcat!!!"

    Well, actually, in ARCADE, this lineup IS A 6.0! Take your three highest BRs (A, B, C) & use the "Pro" formula:

    C + B = X
    X divided by 2 = Y
    A + Y = Z
    Z divided by 2 = AVERAGE BATTLE RATING!

    5.7 (C) + 6 (B) = 11.7 (X). 11.7 (X) / 2 = 5.85 (Y). 6.3 (A) + 5.85 (Y) = 12.15 (Z). 12.15(Z) / 2 = 6.075 (AVERAGE). Round to the nearest .0/.3/.7 = 6.0.





    You can read about this in Issue #1, Pg. 43, of the WT Community Magazine!!!

  2. #2
    Keep honking. I'm reloading AOD Member AOD_MaNii's Avatar
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    Very very interesting !!!

    Thanks for sharing this, already had some doubts when a team is playing 4.0 and I cant add a 4.3 in the same tiers, and I also have a 3.7 that i wouldnt make any difference.
    Now I know how it works!

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    ~HaKuNa MaTaTa~ AOD Member AOD_Sworn Assassin's Avatar
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    lol nice post but whoa... headache.. lol

    good stuff to know though

    wish gajin would just automatically display the freaking battle rating when we set the lineup up in the hanger somewhere... would be so much simpler...
    WaR~ThUnDeR ~ HaKuNa MaTaTa ~

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  4. #4
    I get enough exercise just pushing my luck AOD Member AOD_Nakbula's Avatar
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    Damm that's some reading material, but few things in there wich are new for me. So thanks !
    http://i.imgur.com/Oqxnf6Z.png

  5. #5
    Very funny Scotty, now beam down my clothes SKY_SAMURAI's Avatar
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    Thank you for this info ;)

  6. #6
    Looks like I picked the wrong week to quit sniffing glue antoniy001's Avatar
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    I've heard that there's also +- 0.3 BR change depending on your skill (kill to death ratio or something loke that). Is that true?

  7. #7
    Save your breath. You'll need it to blow up your date! AOD Member AOD_spanakis's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by AOD_antoniy001 View Post
    I've heard that there's also +- 0.3 BR change depending on your skill (kill to death ratio or something loke that). Is that true?
    Well the only Official information about the AB matchmaking system is that formula, but keep in mind that almost none Gaming company ever releases ALL the information about their matchmaking system and how it works.
    There are a lot of theories and rumors about how the "Gaijin matchmaker" works, one is that it takes in to account the results of your last ~10 games the modules that your planes have unlocked etc, and there are some planes that tend to draw high end jets in games.
    One thing is for sure, there are more in the matchmaking system that they can't tell us.

    Some examples:
    The yak15 is a T5 plane with a BR 5.7 you can manage your line up to drop your br at 5.3 but you will still play with jets.
    The Yak9-UT is a 6.0 and the Tempest MK.V (6.0) those 2 demons will get you in jet games 75+% of the time. (not tested on the latest patches)

    Also every matchmaker is designed based on a certain amount of players. So if there are lets say .. only 20 players online , 10 high end jet line ups and 10 high T4s, after some time the matchmaker HAVE to mix them and match them up, to keep them going. For the matchmaker to work properly the server must be ~full.
    Sent from my cave using smoke signals



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    Banned from Forums RTMPro's Avatar
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    Also, once in an arcade battle, press TAB to bring up the player listing. Move your cursor over your name and within seconds a box will pop up. In that pop up box are the 3 planes & their battles ratings that the MM has used to make your ABR!

    If your in a squad, please note, it takes the highest ABR into account. Again, once in battle, press TAB and look at everyones ABR.

    Sent from my GT-I9300 using Tapatalk

  9. #9
    "Every day is a beautiful day" - Elwood P Dowd AOD Member AOD_BBadenov's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by AOD_RTMPro View Post
    Hello,
    In layman's terms, you join a channel & they say, "We're flying 6.0, do you want in?"

    "Ok, let me get my lineup set."
    Lineup:
    P-51D-30 (BR 5.0)
    F8F-1 (BR 5.0)
    F8F-1B (BR 6.3) (A)
    B-17G (BR 6.0) (B)
    FW 190 A-8 (BR 5.7) (C)

    "Hang on! We're flying 6.0, you can't bring your 6.3 Bearcat!!!"

    Well, actually, in ARCADE, this lineup IS A 6.0! Take your three highest BRs (A, B, C) & use the "Pro" formula:

    C + B = X
    X divided by 2 = Y
    A + Y = Z
    Z divided by 2 = AVERAGE BATTLE RATING!

    5.7 (C) + 6 (B) = 11.7 (X). 11.7 (X) / 2 = 5.85 (Y). 6.3 (A) + 5.85 (Y) = 12.15 (Z). 12.15(Z) / 2 = 6.075 (AVERAGE). Round to the nearest .0/.3/.7 = 6.0.
    You math is absolutely correct, but as spanakis noted there are other elements in the match making system other than the average BR rating that Gaijin has either hinted at and some that they maintain as proprietary information not released.

    What I know from experience....a lot of experience....is regardless of the ABR math working out to 6.0 if you put the 6.3 F1F-1B in a US line up, the 6.3 TA-152 in a German line up, or the 6.3 British Tempest you will draw a very high percentage of jet matches. Whereas if you limit the max battle rating in you line is 6.0 you will draw very few jet matches even if your ABR is the same 6.0.

    I love math, I have a BS in Mathematics and a MS in Statistics. However, my in game experience has repeatedly demonstrated, to my skeptical satisfaction, is that there's a lot more to the matchmaker than the average BR formula. Like many things in this game, we will never know exactly what's "under the hood" to precisely predict what the match composition will be. It changes some every patch and only combining the published formulas/guidelines + in game experience will give you a feel for the kind of match your likely to draw with any particular lineup.

  10. #10
    Banned from Forums RTMPro's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by AOD_PapaPnut View Post
    What I know from experience....a lot of experience....is regardless of the ABR math working out to 6.0 if you put the 6.3 F1F-1B in a US line up, the 6.3 TA-152 in a German line up, or the 6.3 British Tempest you will draw a very high percentage of jet matches. Whereas if you limit the max battle rating in you line is 6.0 you will draw very few jet matches even if your ABR is the same 6.0.
    Thank you for your input. Though, if your ABR is 6.0 (even if you have 1x 6.3), the probability of being in a match with 5.0BR - 7.0BR is still the same. The MM doesn't work on individual plane BRs (other than calculating the average) when choosing it's battle. Other components will be how well you're playing as well as your PvP rating. If you have a high PvP rating, & have been winning a lot of matches, the MM will put you in matches with better planes than yours. That is known as being tiered up.

    Just remember, you can always check by using the TAB key. You'd be amazed at how many people have only ONE "tiered up" plane contributing to their lineup. Just hover over each persons name on the other team & you can see their 3 planes that have contributed to THEIR ABR.

    There will always be uneven matches. For the most part, the MM actually does a great job. The whole point of this thread is to advise people that your AVERAGE BATTLE RATING is the only BR that counts towards your MM. You can only be in matches with other players having an ABR +/- 1.0BR.



    Edit:
    ALSO! Something that I forgot to mention. SQUADS! You will always be put into a match with equal squads on both teams. I.E. If you're in a 4-man squad, the other team will have a 4-man squad/2x 2-man squad/1x 2-man squad + 1x 3-man squad. This also may cause you to be "tiered up" if no other squads are flying between your +/- 1.0BR differential. This is another way the MM makes the game "equal."

    Again, press the TAB key and look in an Arcade match!
    Last edited by RTMPro; 03-13-2015 at 03:25 PM.

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    Banned from Forums NavyAv8r's Avatar
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    Hey RTM! Nice guide for AB BR. mind posting the forum here with the title just to get everything in one area? thx

    http://warthunder.clanaod.net/forums...ad.php?t=91333

  12. #12
    Very funny Scotty, now beam down my clothes SKY_SAMURAI's Avatar
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    Interesting point about squad, so if I understand correctly it is easier to squad up on same team, if for example your 5 players and you do 4 in one squad and 1alone to allow better chance to sink in same team then to split up and do 3 and 2 ?

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    Banned from Forums RTMPro's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by AOD_SkySamuari View Post
    Interesting point about squad, so if I understand correctly it is easier to squad up on same team, if for example your 5 players and you do 4 in one squad and 1alone to allow better chance to sink in same team then to split up and do 3 and 2 ?
    If you're trying to be on the same team, yes. That will increase your probability. Just keep in mind, the highest ABR in the squad is what the MM will work off of. Just make sure the single player timing in has the same ABR.

  14. #14
    "Every day is a beautiful day" - Elwood P Dowd AOD Member AOD_BBadenov's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by AOD_RTMPro View Post
    Thank you for your input. Though, if your ABR is 6.0 (even if you have 1x 6.3), the probability of being in a match with 5.0BR - 7.0BR is still the same. The MM doesn't work on individual plane BRs (other than calculating the average) when choosing it's battle.
    For the Average BR element yes, for the rest of the MM logic no one knows. Unless you have personal access to the actual matching making code you don't really know how it works or whether max BR is considered in another part of the MM code. It's quite possible individual BRs are taken into account in some of the other matchmaking logic. It's just as possible that it's not. My point is none of us really know what's under the hood. My experience has been Max BR 6.3 = frequent jets Max BR 6.0 = rare jets. Your experience may be completely different and just as valid and I respect that.

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    Banned from Forums RTMPro's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by AOD_PapaPnut View Post
    For the Average BR element yes, for the rest of the MM logic no one knows. Unless you have personal access to the actual matching making code you don't really know how it works or whether max BR is considered in another part of the MM code. It's quite possible individual BRs are taken into account in some of the other matchmaking logic. It's just as possible that it's not. My point is none of us really know what's under the hood. My experience has been Max BR 6.3 = frequent jets Max BR 6.0 = rare jets. Your experience may be completely different and just as valid and I respect that.
    You're entitled to your own opinion.

    What HAS been released, is that the War Thunder Match Maker use an Average Battle Rating System...NOT Max Battle Rating System.

    My point is, if you get into a squad who say they're flying 6.0...don't argue with them only because you believe something different. If their ABR is 6.0, they're flying 6.0.

  16. #16
    "Every day is a beautiful day" - Elwood P Dowd AOD Member AOD_BBadenov's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by AOD_RTMPro View Post
    You're entitled to your own opinion.

    What HAS been released, is that the War Thunder Match Maker use an Average Battle Rating System...NOT Max Battle Rating System.

    My point is, if you get into a squad who say they're flying 6.0...don't argue with them only because you believe something different. If their ABR is 6.0, they're flying 6.0.
    Let's lighten things up a bit, ok? I absolutely agree with you that the matchmaker uses an Average Battle rating system. It's published and indisputable. And you're absolutely correct in that ABR 6.0 is ABR 6.0 period. However, it's only one element of the total matchmaker and does not completely determine the resulting teams.

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    Banned from Forums RTMPro's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by AOD_PapaPnut View Post
    Let's lighten things up a bit, ok? I absolutely agree with you that the matchmaker uses an Average Battle rating system. It's published and indisputable. And you're absolutely correct in that ABR 6.0 is ABR 6.0 period. However, it's only one element of the total matchmaker and does not completely determine the resulting teams.

    I apologize if I came across in an offensive manner. I just say things straight to the point. And no, ABR is not the only determining factor for the MM. However it is the #1 factor, having the biggest prevalence, & is the only BR factor for the AB MM. Other known factors are squads, plane tier/rank, & profile stats (PvP rating & winning percentage).


    Rererences:
    http://forum.warthunder.com/index.ph...e-air-battles/

    http://forum.warthunder.com/index.ph...making-in-137/

    http://forum.warthunder.com/index.ph...tings-answers/

    http://warthunder.wikia.com/wiki/Bat...ng_Calculation

    http://www.reddit.com/r/Warthunder/c...now_tier_does/

    http://www.reddit.com/r/Warthunder/c...aking_penalty/

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    ~HaKuNa MaTaTa~ AOD Member AOD_Sworn Assassin's Avatar
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    bumpin' for newer recruits that dono
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