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  1. #1
    "Every day is a beautiful day" - Elwood P Dowd AOD Member AOD_BBadenov's Avatar
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    Default F-35 makes operational debut

    While I can't say what we make, the company I work for makes(among other things) custom parts for several systems on the F-35. Finally ready to drop it's first bomb in a full combat operations exercise. Marine Corp Squadrons operationally deployed in July and Air Force squadrons operationally deployed in August.....pretty cool plane...doubt it would fit in my garage.

    http://www.msn.com/en-us/news/us/the...zzfc&ocid=iehp

  2. #2
    Supreme Galactic Overlord AOD Member AOD_nimvlar's Avatar
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    Sounds like you've still got time to get a bigger garage

    Quote Originally Posted by AOD_Kestah
    Best forum post EVER!!!!

  3. #3
    If you choke a smurf, what color does it turn? AOD Member AOD_B.Rubble's Avatar
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    fun to sit off the end of the runway here and watch a few of em rotate
    BRUBBLE

    Bringing BedrockBedlam to a Map near YOU
    "If ur gonna ride My ass,You better pull My hair

  4. #4
    A really Cool Cat AOD Member AOD_rayrayblues's Avatar
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    They're starting to arrive here in Phoenix at Luke AFB. Gotta get out there and see them.

  5. #5
    Danneskjold Repossessions.
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    I've been following the JSF program somewhat closely, and it's a catastrophe. Overweight, overpriced, and severely underperforming. It's so bad that there isn't a Generation 4 jet and some Generation 3 jets that wouldn't just walk all over it in a dogfight. Add on to that the belief that they are only ~5 years away from rendering stealth technology useless (and it wouldn't surprise me if the USA already had), and the JSF is going to be the biggest mistake of a plane since the F-111.


    Add on to the fact that there are some allies in the JSF program that will be ditching it, and it just makes it an even bigger failure. Australia is about to tell the USA to get stuffed and not buy the JSF. Canada is thinking about starting building new / old Canada designed and built fighter jets for their own needs. And other countries are ditching the JSF and buying into the Russian Sukhoi PAK FA stealth fighter, which while only in development currently, far exceeds the capabilities of the JSF including in cheapness and stealth. Not to mention that China stole the designs for the F-22 and the F-35, and is basically building an F-35 clone that is better than what we are doing.
    Last edited by AOD_Danneskjold; 06-04-2015 at 09:19 AM.


  6. #6
    "Every day is a beautiful day" - Elwood P Dowd AOD Member AOD_BBadenov's Avatar
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    The program. or any modern weapons system program, has certainly experience significant problems. After many years involved in the development of classified programs, there is a huge gap between publicly available information and rumor in the press and the truth. The proof will come in the air

  7. #7
    Danneskjold Repossessions.
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    Quote Originally Posted by AOD_PapaPnut View Post
    The program. or any modern weapons system program, has certainly experience significant problems. After many years involved in the development of classified programs, there is a huge gap between publicly available information and rumor in the press and the truth. The proof will come in the air
    I have no doubt about the truth coming out. But those that don't study history are doomed to repeat it in summer school: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/General...F-111_Aardvark


    Basically bad things happen when you try to design 1 plane to fly with all the services. Like for example, the F-35 was supposed to have something like 90% commonality of parts between the A, B, and C in order to make repair easier and cheaper. But after the departures in design, the concessions made to each service, the commonality is about 20%. And even that is with inflated commonality, for example the Navy's tougher landing gear (for aircraft carriers) being common across all services, making the Air Force JSF a thousand pounds heavier than it needs to be just for that single part group.

    Or for another example, the Marine Corp's dogged determination for a STOL / VTOL jet has made the Navy's and the Airforce's F-35 several tons heavier than they need to be.


    Off the top of my head, the few planes I know of that served across the branches successfully started with one branch, and then migrated to the others, often with heavy and specific modifications. Planes like the F-86 / FJ-2/3/4, or the F-4 Phantoms.


  8. #8
    "Every day is a beautiful day" - Elwood P Dowd AOD Member AOD_BBadenov's Avatar
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    Your logic is sound and conclusions accurate.

    Designing a single anything to meet multiple mission objectives requires compromises. The challenge comes from the economics of modern weapons system design, development, and deployment. The F-86 (late '40s design) and F-4 (late'50s design, introduced in 1960) were developed in an entirely different economic environment and cost of development relative to modern weapons systems. While there chronic socioeconomic problems (hunger, unemployment, lack of access to adequate medical treatment etc) it's not economically viable or socially responsible to develop narrowly defined mission specific systems.

    Could mutliple better single mission objective systems have been developed? Absolutely, but at what cost? I absolutely agree with you and do believe our insatiable need to have the most advance technology as opposed to the most practical has lead to some suboptimal results.

  9. #9
    Can I have your Tots jackeled's Avatar
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    Personally i feel that the F35 will not live up to expectations. We all know how the Serbians shot down a F117... Plus the increasing capabilities of computers to do calculations, LFR(Low Frequency Radar) will be able to detect stealth aircraft. although LFR is usually useless due to the junk it picks up, advanced and powerful computers can filter the information and pinpoint the stealth targets... Plus all the corruption and politics involved... it will really reduce the quality of the F35.(Pardon me if i offended anyone here)

  10. #10
    Boycott shampoo! Demand the REAL poo! Javafox's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by AOD_jackeled View Post
    Personally i feel that the F35 will not live up to expectations. We all know how the Serbians shot down a F117... Plus the increasing capabilities of computers to do calculations, LFR(Low Frequency Radar) will be able to detect stealth aircraft. although LFR is usually useless due to the junk it picks up, advanced and powerful computers can filter the information and pinpoint the stealth targets... Plus all the corruption and politics involved... it will really reduce the quality of the F35.(Pardon me if i offended anyone here)
    Well you hit the nail on the head on that one. The F-35 is a fucking joke to the world of aviation.

  11. #11
    "Every day is a beautiful day" - Elwood P Dowd AOD Member AOD_BBadenov's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by AOD_Javafox View Post
    Well you hit the nail on the head on that one. The F-35 is a fucking joke to the world of aviation.
    Unless it's on your six....

  12. #12
    I'm on here too much... AOD Member AOD_penguin1737's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by AOD_PapaPnut View Post
    Unless it's on your six....
    Agreed!

  13. #13
    Knee High to a Worms Ass Scrambler's Avatar
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    Yeah, one of my favorite things regarding that era was when McNamara's "Whiz Kids" were trying to push the F-111 for the Navy, one Tom Connolly bluntly stated in a Senate hearing"Mr. Chairman, all the thrust in Christendom couldn't make a Navy fighter out of that airplane.

    Project was killed, and thus led to the birth of the last great Grumman cat, the F-14 Tomcat.

  14. #14
    Danneskjold Repossessions.
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    Quote Originally Posted by AOD_PapaPnut View Post
    Your logic is sound and conclusions accurate.

    Designing a single anything to meet multiple mission objectives requires compromises. The challenge comes from the economics of modern weapons system design, development, and deployment. The F-86 (late '40s design) and F-4 (late'50s design, introduced in 1960) were developed in an entirely different economic environment and cost of development relative to modern weapons systems. While there chronic socioeconomic problems (hunger, unemployment, lack of access to adequate medical treatment etc) it's not economically viable or socially responsible to develop narrowly defined mission specific systems.

    Could mutliple better single mission objective systems have been developed? Absolutely, but at what cost? I absolutely agree with you and do believe our insatiable need to have the most advance technology as opposed to the most practical has lead to some suboptimal results.
    You don't have to design single mission planes. The F-14, for example, was initially designed as a stand-off fleet defender. But even before they finished building all of the F-14A's, they started to load bombs on them. In a time when the A-6 Intruder was still flying, specifically the A-6E which was one of the best low level interdiction bombers the Navy ever had, they started putting bombs on the F-14 Tomcat. You design something to do "A", and then as the mission parameters change, you give it the ability to do "B." The problem comes when you design something to do "A", "B", "C", "D",... And then you are shocked to discover that your design can't even do any of the individual roles, or even several of them, as well as any of the more established planes, which are far, far cheaper.

    For example, the US Air Force has taken to outright lying about the A-10 warthog, it's capabilities and its performance in order to shutter that project, in order to divert money to the Joint Strike Fighter. There has never been a vehicle that can perform the job of close air support as well as the A-10 either in delivery, performance, reliability or ruggedness. And yet they are trying to scrap them in order to build more JSF's?


    Some other embarrassing examples: http://foxtrotalpha.jalopnik.com/f-3...eas-1688616599 The Marine F-35 JSF can't load its bombs because the designers screwed up the bomb bay dimensions.

    http://foxtrotalpha.jalopnik.com/nav...ade-1697523492 The new ship built for the US Navy on the "eve" of the JSF going operational has the deck melt under the jet exhaust from the JSF, causing it to be sent back immediately for 40 more months of retrofits.

    http://foxtrotalpha.jalopnik.com/the...-sa-1668120726 The JSF can't run if the fuel tank truck has been sitting in the sun...
    Last edited by AOD_Danneskjold; 06-04-2015 at 11:14 PM.


  15. #15
    What is time to an immortal?
    AOD_Cadimus's Avatar
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    I really miss the F-14 I wish they would have just modernized it with f-22 R.A.M. but that would never happen. The A-10 needs a second generation with some R.A.M. just like the F-15 Stealth eagle that Boeing developed but I doubt that will ever happen. As long as tanks are still around the A-10 will have its place in the air.
    "In midnight clad" "If you suspect you have a case of the Pilot Tinkiez please report to the nearest medical officer"

  16. #16
    Supreme Galactic Overlord AOD Member AOD_nimvlar's Avatar
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    The one indisputable thing about the F-35 is- it would look pretty damn cool in MY garage...once I get it big enough to hold it

    Quote Originally Posted by AOD_Kestah
    Best forum post EVER!!!!

  17. #17
    Remember that one time at Band Camp? AOD Member AOD_Aviation21's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by AOD_nimvlar View Post
    The one indisputable thing about the F-35 is- it would look pretty damn cool in MY garage...once I get it big enough to hold it
    Wait Nim I was told your garage was already big enough... rumors I guess!
    Many pilots of the time were the opinion that a fighter pilot in a closed cockpit was an impossible thing, because you should smell the enemy. You could smell them because of the oil they were burning.

    Adolf Galland

  18. #18
    Banned from Forums NavyAv8r's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by AOD_Javafox View Post
    Well you hit the nail on the head on that one. The F-35 is a fucking joke to the world of aviation.
    Java and his "other" aviation superiority references... always.

    Although It has not seen combat, yet.

  19. #19
    If I'm not back in 5....wait longer! AOD Member AOD_CosmicNebulah's Avatar
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    The F-35 is such a nice plane, but will it be able to take on the OP Russians and their up and coming T-50's?

  20. #20
    Ever notice how fast Windows runs? Neither did I AOD Member AOD_Floks's Avatar
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    pieeeuuwww piieeeeeuuuwww, but will it come to warthunder :D
    I took an IQ test and the results were negative, but still having fun


 
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