Let your voice be heard!

[AOD_Teeth_Malloy_Excel]

As I've only been playing for a few months now, I personally cannot say if the recent changes that were added and then rolled back were good or not, but from the vast majority of people, people were not happy with it.

The Snail just posted something about giving feedback on the economic changes.

I would highly recommend people let their voices be heard. I know a lot people will say that they will not listen...and you might be right. However the fact that so many people complained and they actually rolled something back means that they are taking this seriously, and are willing to listen to us.

Let your voice be heard, and hopefully there can be positive changes from The Snail.

https://warthunder.com/en/news/8259-...the-economy-en

[Doctor Jimmy]

Yes, only we can make gajin change!

[AOD_Engino]

Will this mean we can finally be able to get that deaf snail to listen to us and make it possible to get end tier vehicles now?

[AOD_LFPositivity]

I don't really believe that it was the community complaining on its own that made them backtrack, for now that is, the changes, but the review bombs on the Steam store page that gloriously pulled the 'Recent Reviews' to Overwhelmingly Negative, and 'All Reviews' to Mixed. Some forty-five thousand of them.

And their 'response' make me less than enthusiastic for any meaningful change on the snails part to be honest.

We regret that our actions to balance the economy are often poorly explained and not transparent to you.

Haha, brrt.

Player progression is essential. You can't give a player everything at once, because it will overwhelm and make the game very difficult for them and they will just leave it either immediately or almost immediately.

Oh no, the snail is going to remove top-tier premium vehicles because player progression is essential. You can't give players everything at once!

The fundamental difference between paid games and fair play free-2-play games is that you don't have to pay to play free games, and most players don't actually pay.

Interesting. If you play free to play games, you don't pay to play the game.

the total time to get the first "top" vehicle should be a balanced (not too long not too short) number of game hours

Not too short, as in, I don't know, maybe nine months minimum, without premium time and premium vehicles, and actively grinding.

Of course, a review on Steam is also a platform for expression. [...] So review bombing does damage to the game [...] please use other, less destructive ways. For example, leave feedback in our forum [...] Also, review bombing will not cause modifying or nullifying in-game prices - if the game is shut down, no one wins.

kek

Yeah.

So I have little hope.

That said, I would like to see the AOD to create some sort of meaningful list of feedback that we as AOD can copy-paste it as a group to send it their way. Not that it would change anything, but you know. Who knows?

[AOD_Blodgett]

So I unfortunately have really no idea what is going on with this ruckus. I tend to log in and just play. In reading positivity's snipits, am I to believe that they are or were going to remove the ability to purchase top tier vehicles with money. If this is true, I fully support this concept. It might not be popular but on the rare occasions that I venture into the toxic thermals and darts levels, every game I play is done within 5 minutes because one team is made up of pay to win one and dones. Too many people have figured out the quickest way to grind out a tech tree is to buy the top tier premium vehicle and then use it to grind the entire tree.

The other thing I thought was interesting was the comments against the review bombings. Apparently they did have quite the effect as gaigin is going way out of their way to try and stop it.

I'm told gaigin is destroying the economy but still no one has been able to tell me how they are doing it. Someone said something to the effect that you have to kill 5 players in a game before you would be able to turn a profit in a match. But still no clear explanation has been given to me yet.

I know for a fact in my years of playing this game, the higher the tier you play the less lions you will make. I say this because you'll make similar or less to what you make in lower tiers but the costs to repair, rearm and purchase new vehicles and crew them take their tolls. I learned this when I was sitting over a million lions one day while grinding 7.0 line of Sweden when it came out. Within hours and after unlocking a vehicle or two, I could not longer play as I was out of lions. I grew frustrated with the game and it was around this time I was talking to RedKnight about it. He told me to buy a low tier premium tank that had been released years ago but was no longer available. Gaigin did a 3 day special where they were selling it and a couple of other things so I bought it. It was a 4.0 tank. He and I grouped up and started playing. I think by the end of the week, I had accumulated well over 10 million lions and he was near the same. We typically play in the 4.0 to 5.3 BR range and I've got close to 20 million lions while he has I think well over 60 million (he waits til the sales to purchase and crew all his new vehicles when they are 50% off while I don't care and just buy them.) But one thing is for sure, if your hurting for lions, start playing lower tiers.

[AOD_LFPositivity]

For reference, this was the 'announcement' post that they now won't implement;
https://warthunder.com/en/game/changelog/current/1495

They are not going to remove the ability to buy top tier vehicles with $$$. My point was that they are claiming that player progression is 'essential' while actively advertising top-tier vehicles to sell to the player-base.

Complaints are partially due to the changes announced, and partially because the community feeling fed up with how the snail runs the game.

I'm told gaigin is destroying the economy but still no one has been able to tell me how they are doing it. Someone said something to the effect that you have to kill 5 players in a game before you would be able to turn a profit in a match. But still no clear explanation has been given to me yet.

I know for a fact in my years of playing this game, the higher the tier you play the less lions you will make. I say this because you'll make similar or less to what you make in lower tiers but the costs to repair, rearm and purchase new vehicles and crew them take their tolls. I learned this when I was sitting over a million lions one day while grinding 7.0 line of Sweden when it came out. Within hours and after unlocking a vehicle or two, I could not longer play as I was out of lions. I grew frustrated with the game and it was around this time I was talking to RedKnight about it. He told me to buy a low tier premium tank that had been released years ago but was no longer available. Gaigin did a 3 day special where they were selling it and a couple of other things so I bought it. It was a 4.0 tank. He and I grouped up and started playing. I think by the end of the week, I had accumulated well over 10 million lions and he was near the same. We typically play in the 4.0 to 5.3 BR range and I've got close to 20 million lions while he has I think well over 60 million (he waits til the sales to purchase and crew all his new vehicles when they are 50% off while I don't care and just buy them.) But one thing is for sure, if your hurting for lions, start playing lower tiers.

Ignoring the need to eat the costs while researching essential parts like Parts, FPE, correct shells, and QoL parts like NVD, LR, Crew Replenishments, etc. -- you do not make enough

You do not make enough Silver Lions (or RP) while playing the game without a Premium Account and a Premium Vehicle for the game to be even remotely enjoyable, notwithstanding the costs you need to eat while researching essential parts like Parts, FPE, correct shells, and QoL parts like NVD, LR, Crew Replenishments when you open up a new tank. The cost to buy the tank, to crew it, and to repair it while both trying to spade the tank and research some other tank is incredibly high. 5.0 K/D might be an over-exaggeration to be net positive on SL at the end of a match, but you probably should need 2-3 kills per death.

You can make some very good SL at top tier with a Russian lineup like TURMS (%450), 2S38 (%375), SU-25 (%630), which is a very strong lineup without even adding any other non-premium vehicles -- so it is not necessarily about whether you play high tier or low. It is, or has to be, about how predatory the snail is. From nerfing the SL gains to creating more grind by trying to remove the foldered tanks, the game is extremely hard to enjoy for F2P players.

Without premium vehicles and on-and-off premium account (in Russian ground tech tree) I managed to get to Rank VI after however many years of on-and-off playing, and while doing so I intentionally left TD and AA lines unresearched. I bought 2A4 123, and it took me less than a month to get a decent 10.3 line-up in two-ish months. I also bought Challenger DS and Rooikat 105 on 7th of May, to grind British ground tech tree from scratch. Barely playing those two compared to 10.3 German line-up, I am about to finish all tanks up to Rank III, incl. everything foldered, with a healthy margin of SLs earned even in games that I play like shit.

When I first joined the AOD (10/10, would strongly recommend by the way) and while I was still a Russian main (no premium vehicles or account), buying a tank (like BMP-2) meant that if I had two-three shit games I was out of Silver Lions. I had to get a Best Squad wager going when we were in a full squad just to have some SLs to crew tanks. Now, as a wallet warrior, I can rush the cap with Rooikat, die before I manage to cap it to make points, bring my Challenger, and die, I would still make 'some' SL and 'acceptable' RP.

My gripe with the snail is not that the game should reward bad players, or that the grind should be unacceptably easy, both for SL and RP. But damn, it is just too hard atm for those who can't dish out $$$ for both Premium Vehicles and Premium Accounts.

+ I love playing top-tier more than low/mid-tier. I have no problems hopping on a 4.0 or 5.3 game, but I would very much rather play with new-ish tanks that comes with thermals, stabs, and LRs. Different people enjoy different eras. No-one should be punished for what era vehicle they play, especially after they had to grind for so long to get to a tier they love.

[AOD_Teeth_Malloy_Excel]

Id love the opportunity to try and do this. I'm currently at work now however when I get home tonight I'll see if I can draft a post explaining what the major issues are, and a way for people to provide feedback.

[AOD_AngryShifty]

One can hope for change but it is gaijin after all

[AOD_Macjagger]

The review bombs have certainly gotten some attention, and rightfully so... I've never seen so many people pissed off before in this community. However, the one thing above all else that will make heads roll is when people stop purchasing premium vehicles, GE, prem time... That hits the snail's wallet and they will have to change or go do something else, and fast.

[AOD_PcolaTy]

I've been keeping a close eye on the whole issue since it started when Gaijin attempted to "improve" the grind and economy a few weeks ago. By improve, they meant unfoldering quite a few vehicles and further nerfing the RP and SL gains of some vehicles. I remember reading the initial Reddit thread that some player created to have people review bomb the game; I scoffed at this as I remember the many times in the past where people made a call to review bomb and either got absolutely shit on, or just ignored all together. This time though, it worked and has caused quite a ruckus that even Gaijin cannot ignore at this point, and Gaijin's response will either make or break the game.

Interestingly enough, Gaijin removed the Steam icon on their store website, so I wonder if they may and try to pull WT from Steam and continue business as usual. Cannot have a review bomb if Gaijin snuffs out our ways to criticize the game.

[AOD_chalion1a]

I've not had the time to keep up with everything that's been tossed about this issue, I can only go by what I've seen in game and on you tube. In game, I've seen my game quality go down and it's made me take some notice. I'm a casual player and only do Arcade Ground battles a couple hours a day on average. But even with that minimum play, I've seen how much less overall I earn.

I hope this mess gets resolved, because I do like this game, but I can't focus it like many are able to do.

[AOD_Blodgett]

Thanks for the more detailed insight Positivity. I can fully agree that unless you have a premium account it is extremely difficult to really enjoy the game. I had noticed little things early on such as if I was free to play, I lost most matches, was lucky to get a kill and yeah never made any lions. But once I activated premium, winning was easy and I could easily pull off 3 to 5 kills a match. But as soon as that couple of days of premium wore off then it was back to never winning or getting kills. I'm convinced there is some kind of metric built into the game that checks whether your FTP or premium.

[AOD_Engino]

Has the economy been fixed yet, or should I start considering moving to a different game division?

[AOD_TheGrumpyVeteran]

Fart

[AOD_Blankwindow]

I've not had the time to keep up with everything that's been tossed about this issue, I can only go by what I've seen in game and on you tube. In game, I've seen my game quality go down and it's made me take some notice. I'm a casual player and only do Arcade Ground battles a couple hours a day on average. But even with that minimum play, I've seen how much less overall I earn.

I hope this mess gets resolved, because I do like this game, but I can't focus it like many are able to do.

you can't call yourself casual when you are playing a couple of hours a day on average. That is a regular, by the sound of it, you just mean that you are not a hardcore competitive player.

Casual is someone like me who goes months without playing and then will play a match or three a day for a couple of weeks then ignore it again for another couple of months. Like often I get on for the once daily air\ground assaults. Do the one round to get the crate, and then close the game is often how I roll.



alls I can say is none of these complaints are new everything LFPositivity mentioned above, they have gotten worse over the last decade sure. but what took me from being a hardcore player to casual was reaching jet's because of the repair cost and\or time compared to the rewards from the match. Jets were fun as fuck to use until you realized until you were one of the top 2 players of the match it cost you money to play. (how it felt anyway....) And I'm a good pilot who almost always died with a positive KDR.


the issues have gotten worse, but they have existed for a decade at this point all the way back to when there was only planes in the game.

I still remember one of the AOD v I forgot whom spars. started out 10 v 10, 5 minutes in it was 7 v me. shot down 6 of those fuckers and if I didn't have to go back for more cannon rounds then I think I would have gotten the typhoon too, but ( i was in a zero) i had no cannons left and basically no pew pew (jap 12.7... its more effective to scream pew pew than pull the trigger) left either so had to land, he got me on take off.

[AOD_PcolaTy]

Good news guys, the roadmap is out and there are some really good changes that Gaijin are adding in.

[Teffel]

Was really nice to read the whole News from Gaijin. The Steamreview-Bombing had an big impact on them it seems

[AOD_PcolaTy]

Was really nice to read the whole News from Gaijin. The Steamreview-Bombing had an big impact on them it seems

Agreed, and reading the news has me cautiously optimistic about the future of the game, something I have not been in a long time.