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  1. #1
    Danneskjold Repossessions.
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    Default The saber staff is a relatively useless weapon.

    I've been putting a lot of thought into this. The saber staff is obviously modeled after the Quarterstaff, a powerful and very adaptive weapon. Part of the strength of the Quarterstaff is the availability of striking surfaces, but the biggest strength is that any part of the staff can be held.

    Not so with the saber staff. You can only hold it about the middle. At no time can you grab it by the glowstick part.

    On top of that, accidentally hitting yourself with it has devastating consequences. Every attack also needs to be considered if it was going to hit yourself, limiting your actions and abilities.



    You may now all discuss how awesome / right I am.


  2. #2
    trash AOD Member AOD_Ion's Avatar
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    Darth Maul is a dare devil

  3. #3
    Nubcake AOD Member AOD_Abel's Avatar
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    The force, problem solved.

  4. #4
    Voted best support Jedi 2016. AOD Member AOD_Darth Bane's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by AOD_Abel View Post
    The force, problem solved.
    This!
    Wow abel said something right...
    Emi ~'sic Forever♪♪♪: LOL
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  5. #5
    If you choke a smurf, what color does it turn? Vaxor's Avatar
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  6. #6
    If you ain't makin' waves, you ain't kickin' hard enough!
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    its not useless its just the "not hitting yourself" part that`s tricky




    For the Angel of Death spread his wings on the blast,
    And breathed in the face of the foe as he passed,
    And the eyes of the sleepers waxed deadly and chill,
    And their hearts but once heaved, and for ever grew still.

  7. #7
    I took an IQ test and the results were negative StoopKid1's Avatar
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  8. #8
    Got Herpes? Collect all eight! AOD Member AOD_NegSpace's Avatar
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    A quarterstaff, being a striking weapon, gains effectiveness by increasing the force of impact via greater velocity from its length. That is to say, the longer it is, the faster the outer part will go when you swing it. Of this, you are correct.

    But a lightsaber is not a striking weapon and does not require velocity, weight, or force (lower case) to be effective. Thus, to maximize the mobility of its two, and only, ends, one must hold it in the middle.

    /counterpoint

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  9. #9
    Danneskjold Repossessions.
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    But with two ends, one of which will kill you just as quick as the other end, the mobility and usefulness is severely limited. Every attack and movement with the staff needs to consider where the opposite end will be. A single saber, even two sabers is far more useful for attack and defense than this staff could be.


  10. #10
    Voted best support Jedi 2016. AOD Member AOD_Darth Bane's Avatar
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    "In combat your mind tries to keep tack of each blade separately, effectively doubling the amount of possibilities. But the two blades are connected: by knowing the location of one, you are automatically aware of the other. In actual practice, the double bladed lightsaber is more limited than the traditional lightsaber. It can do more damage, but it is less precise. It requires longer sweeping movements that don't transition well into a quick stab or thrust.Because the weapon is difficult to master, however, few among the jedi--or even the sith--understand it. They don't know how to attack or defend effectively against it. That gives those of us who use it an advantage over most of our opponents."

    -Kas'im to Darth Bane
    -From Darth Bane Path of Destruction
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  11. #11
    Got Herpes? Collect all eight! AOD Member AOD_NegSpace's Avatar
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    If you take a minimalist approach, you would require half the movement needed to cover the area using a normal lightsaber. That goes for both defense and offensive capabilities. For every 180 degree shift, at most you would need 90. For every rotation you would have to make with your body, even less.

    Mobility is actually greater, as you would require much less bodily and manual movement to put a blade where it would need to be, as well as being able to strike twice as often. Even with two sabers, you would need to consider where the other one is, moreso than a staff where the other one, as bane mentioned, is always opposite the first.

    I'm just playing devil's advocate. The staff saber is my least favorite jedi toy.

    /joinmyneverendingarmyoftheunded
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  12. #12
    Plan C AOD Member AOD_Markyle's Avatar
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    Now let's conduct a study of Duel Sabers -- have fun :D
    - Plan C -

  13. #13
    Janxed AOD_Mr.Alien's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by AOD_NegSpace View Post
    But a lightsaber is not a striking weapon and does not require velocity, weight, or force (lower case) to be effective.
    Time to nerd out. While swinging at a gunner would require none of the above, a clash or even just to block an incoming swing would require all three. Perhaps not weight but certainly force and velocity. And i loved "force (lower case)"

    Kid A: "And ill tattoo that on my body. Right above my ass, tramp stamp."
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  14. #14
    I get enough exercise just pushing my luck AOD Member AOD_SpartanOG's Avatar
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    hmmmmmmm if only Lightsabers existed. :o

    "I LIKE HOW BIG IT IS IN MY HANDS, yeah! Slerp slerp slerp!" - Kid A
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  15. #15
    Danneskjold Repossessions.
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    Quote Originally Posted by AOD_Mr.Alien View Post
    Time to nerd out. While swinging at a gunner would require none of the above, a clash or even just to block an incoming swing would require all three. Perhaps not weight but certainly force and velocity. And i loved "force (lower case)"
    Everytime the sabers are used in the movies, they require force (lower case) to push through anything. Gunners, blaster bolts, blast doors... They don't automatically disintegrate and burn through what they touch.

    Though I have often wondered if there is any resistance, like air resistance when they swing them. In the movies they swing them around like the blades themselves have weight.


    As for dual sabers... They can be useful and deadly, but honestly I think a single saber in either a fencing stance or a samurai sword stance is far more powerful, versatile and deadly.

    hmmmmmmm if only Lightsabers existed. :o
    HERETIC!


  16. #16
    Got Herpes? Collect all eight! AOD Member AOD_NegSpace's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by AOD_Danneskjold View Post
    Everytime the sabers are used in the movies, they require force (lower case) to push through anything. Gunners, blaster bolts, blast doors... They don't automatically disintegrate and burn through what they touch

    HERETIC!
    We can REALLY nerd out here...

    because there is a distinction between original trilogy lightsaber physics and prequel trilogy lightsaber physics.

    Lucas originally intended for the lightsaber to be similar to a heavy katana or something. He wanted to simulate a sense of incredible heft and power to swing it. If you look at the duel between Vader and Obi Wan in EP IV. you can get what he was trying to do. Two hands, deliberate... Very kendo-ish.

    Later, he went with the "blades have no real mass" theory, which would bring me to a counter point of... it takes force and speed to swing the hilts to place them, but would posit that they DO disintegrate and burn what they touch without requiring (or using at least minimal) velocity. Like when Qui Gon melts the blast door in Ep. I, or when Obi Wan is casually taking out battle droid legs with a flick of his wrist reminiscent of a Harry Potter film (also in Ep. I), or when rain drops hit it when it's motionless and they evaporate anyway.

    The efficacy of the blade is not dependent upon velocity, like a striking weapon, or it should not be, given that it is somehow a non-heat radiating energy beam that manages to cause micro lacerations and burns to anything it touches (but not just within proximity).

    Yay fiction.

    /joinmyneverendingarmyoftheunded
    i reley dont wan to say this, but i have to now.


  17. #17
    Danneskjold Repossessions.
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    There is a distinction between prequel and OT saber styles. The OT saber styles were real world fencing stances. The prequel styles were flowery crap made to look good on screen.

    Qui Gon doesn't just casually stab the blast door, however. He really, really leans into it, showing that it does require force to cut. Rain drops hitting the saber DO have force (lower case) because they are falling onto the blade. As for the battledroids, they are thin pieces of metal, designed not to do much more than hold a blaster. Of course they get cut in 2 easily.


  18. #18
    Got Herpes? Collect all eight! AOD Member AOD_NegSpace's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by AOD_Danneskjold View Post
    Rain drops hitting the saber DO have force (lower case) because they are falling onto the blade.
    That is true, but the application of searing heat simply by contact was what I was going for. And I agree about the flowery crap. He really did change the mechanics from the OT to the preqs.

    But the argument remains the same. You don't need to generate a lot of speed or utilize surface area for the thing to be effective. You said yourself, you can't grab the glowy part. You can't gently lay that part in your hand, no matter how gentle you are, because, as Mr. Mackey says, "That would be bad, m'kay." Therefore, the staff would require minimal movement compared to any other combination of sabers, which makes it not useless.

    Of course, the easier point would be to just say that Darth Maul used one pretty effectively, all within the rules and boundaries of the star wars universe as dictated by Lucas of the Stars, Himself. *gag*
    Last edited by AOD_NegSpace; 03-19-2012 at 05:50 PM.

  19. #19
    Nubcake AOD Member AOD_Abel's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by AOD_NegSpace View Post
    The efficacy of the blade is not dependent upon velocity, like a striking weapon, or it should not be, given that it is somehow a non-heat radiating energy beam that manages to cause micro lacerations and burns to anything it touches (but not just within proximity).

    Yay fiction.
    Best statement about star wars ever.

  20. #20
    trash AOD Member AOD_Ion's Avatar
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    My head hurts


 
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