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  1. #1
    Boycott shampoo! Demand the REAL poo! AOD Member AOD_MHare's Avatar
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    Default Camoflauge Opinion Poll

    Okay.Opinion poll time. I would like hear what other people think about this.
    Gaijen got everyone excited about the new camoflauge coming out. Bushes, skulls, etc, etc. However, WHEN they rolled them out, it cost 500GE just to GET the bushes and camoflauge with NO way of actually EARNING them. I know and understand that camoflauge doesn't really matter in Arcade mode because you still have a big tag over your head, but in RB battles, it would be nice to have. Some people, such as myself, just cannot afford to drop 500GE to get that Camoflauge. it's been raised to 2000 GE today.
    Personally, I think Gaijen needs to change it so you CAN earn them not just buy dropping lots of money for GE.
    What are your thoughts.

    Keep your head on a Swival
    Firehose.

  2. #2
    Looks like I picked the wrong week to quit sniffing glue Blutkind's Avatar
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    I don't see the problem with the bushes personally. They are not fully working to start with, but end of the day, its a FTP game. Funding is needed to continue development. That aside, Gaijin have given multiple options to earn premium currency, and are always doing events where you can win currency (In-game events, screenshot\video events etc etc).

    I've yet to see a single FTP game that offers the same to its players.

    Everything in the game (Apart from Bundle Specific vehicles - Which I don't personally like the idea of) can be obtained within the game without spending a dime as long as your willing to put the time and effort in to obtain them. Those who do not want to do that, have the option of purchasing in-game currency and skipping that.

    Heaven forbid a business would like to earn money to pay its Staff, Property and Equipment costs.
    Micro payments is the way most free to play games are going.

    Nb: Not angry or directed at anyone here. Just something that has had to be repeated about 40 times over the past 48 hours.

  3. #3
    Knee High to a Worms Ass AOD Member AOD_Tom12348's Avatar
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    Default

    Camoflauge is really just behind a pay wall and its a beginning to pay 2 win. It really should be removed or made for everyone.

  4. #4
    I get enough exercise just pushing my luck AOD Member AOD_Roeffel's Avatar
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    I don't like the bushes because I believe they give an advantage in realistic battles for example
    First off if the bushes are added correctly, it's harder to spot that tank
    Second, even if u manage to spot the tank, it's still hard(er) to see where to actually shoot for the weakspots because they will be covered

    When it come to the price, I don't know what to think of it
    At one side, I'm ok with it as is because less players will be equiping them,
    but at the other hand it would have been nice if we could grind for it, but then a really big grind, almost like acing a tank
    And then it's kinda like Blutkind explained and u can earn it without money if u put a lot of effort to it, which u could compare to a really big grind

    So in short, I still don't like it (unless it would be arcade only maybe), no matter how u can obtain them
    I never lose. I either win or I learn.


  5. #5
    Boycott shampoo! Demand the REAL poo! AOD Member AOD_BhPlay's Avatar
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    Default

    500 GE for a bush is crap.

  6. #6
    Looks like I picked the wrong week to quit sniffing glue AOD Member AOD_ViolentRanger's Avatar
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    Default

    I am not a tanker so this really doesn't apply to me but the 2000 ge cost of the bushes from the outside looking it does really sound completely pay to win. It sounds like it would give huge advantages to realistic tankers. I do not feel the game as a whole has gone pay to win but this sounds like it is causing realistic tanking to be pay to win unless the huge advantage I imagine does not exist.

  7. #7
    Very funny Scotty, now beam down my clothes SKY_SAMURAI's Avatar
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    I am I missing something here, I agree with Blukind. The game is free from the start, with many option to earn if wanted. The game is always progressing that doesn't come cheap. If I where to go buy a ps4 game at 70$ that will be done in 8 hours or less depending 500ge is 3freakin dollars, really pay to win.?

  8. #8
    Boycott shampoo! Demand the REAL poo! Wundsalz's Avatar
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    It's not a good item to put behind a hard paywall, as it potentially provides a significant advantage for some game modes. Though I'm not affected by it myself as an arcade player, I can see where people complaining about it are coming from.
    Warthunder markets itself as a pay to progress game. putting items which provide an advantage behind a paywall without providing alternative ways to get it (or a similar item) doesn't blend in well into this concept.

  9. #9
    Looks like I picked the wrong week to quit sniffing glue Blutkind's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by AOD_Wundsalz View Post
    putting items which provide an advantage behind a paywall without providing alternative ways to get it (or a similar item)
    I would follow this logic if it was actually behind a paywall. If they put a monetary price on it and said 'you can only get this buy spending xx dollars, then I would be leading the charge about this being unjust, abhorrent and completely against the concept of the Free to Play (pay to progress) model.

    The only advantage these bushes provide, is the ability to cover your weakspots and make them harder to identify. Based on that, you can earn the Helmets and what not to serve the exact same ability. The bushes rendering starts to break from 75m+ and is totally useless at 200m+.

    Does it provide an advantage? perhaps. But I have not had a single problem killing a tank with this camouflage enabled.

    It just appears to me as people on the official forums and reddit as finding another crutch to use to explain their own failings. Similar to the whole "Russian Bias" chant.

  10. #10
    Boycott shampoo! Demand the REAL poo! AOD Member AOD_MHare's Avatar
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    Default

    I guess my biggest complaint is this. There are SOME people who play War Thunder and love it, such as myself, who CAN'T afford to drop $20, $30$, $40, or $50 all the time to get Golden Eagles just so they can get Camoflauge or a Premium tank or plane. Goddess knows I would if I could. But for those people who CAN'T, like me, they are ALWAYS going to be at a disadvantage. Yes, I have spent $$ on GE, but not that much and not as much as I would like to. So those people have to rely on not only their skills as a tanker or a flier, but they also have to rely on being able to OUTSMART those that are paying to win.

  11. #11
    Looks like I picked the wrong week to quit sniffing glue Blutkind's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by AOD_Firehose View Post
    paying to win.
    Can you show me where it's pay to win? I think if you read above we have already debunked this statement.

  12. #12
    Can I have your Tots Sdkfz250's Avatar
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    I am pretty sure that the bushes and extras you can buy for tanks now do pretty much nothing to affect your performance in them, minus the Add-On Armour in the unlocks at Tier IV for the vehicles that got it. The bushes and other foliage don't render outside of very close range and if you've been playing ground forces for more than a day, you know (roughly) where to shoot a tank. I for example am not going to stop shooting the weaker armour of a tank just because he covers it in leaves and asks me nicely.

  13. #13
    Ever notice how fast Windows runs? Neither did I AOD Member AOD_Floks's Avatar
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    looks great, but the costs are to high
    I took an IQ test and the results were negative, but still having fun

  14. #14
    Boycott shampoo! Demand the REAL poo! Wundsalz's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by AOD_Blutkind View Post
    Can you show me where it's pay to win? I think if you read above we have already debunked this statement.
    Sure Golden Eagles are obtainable in other ways but purchasing them. However it's not like they hand them out like candy and they can't be farmed in a controlled grind like anything obtainable by SL. I've played War-thunder fairly actively for about half a year now and I think I've barely crossed the 4 digit mark by doing tutorials, events and wagers combined (I've still haven't touched a couple of wagers yet though). So after half a year of playing the game I haven't been able to accumulate the 2000 GE required to buy a bush and said bush probably wouldn't be the first purchasement I'd make if those were my only GEs anyway. There are better ways to invest them. Anyway, while I see that it's possible to get the bushes without paying for them, I think this consideration to be of rather theoretical nature. I don't think there will be a lot of players out there who don't pay for the game and purchase them anyway.

    For me, personally, the situation is different anyway. If I've got the chance to get free GEs I take them unless it involves too much grinding or the time frame of the event doesn't fit my schedule. However the main chunk of my GEs has been obtained by direct purchases. Hence I strongly associate GE price tags with money price tags. In case of the bush that's about 10 Euro. A fair bit over the top for such a minor item/feature in my opinion.

  15. #15
    Can I have your Tots Sdkfz250's Avatar
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    If the price of it is over the top for you, then don't buy it. If you as a person want to be able to camouflage your tank using the bushes added, you'll make the choice to put GE aside to get them. If you don't want to spend 1-2K GE for them, then don't. You're not any further disadvantaged by not having them compared to those who do. Nothing that you have said there makes them pay to win items.

  16. #16
    ~HaKuNa MaTaTa~ AOD Member AOD_Sworn Assassin's Avatar
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    well, there is a free eagles app for android if you just have to have them.. I'm more than sure at some point there will be a discount on golden eagles as there are about 10 times every year.. also, as stated here already the game is free, the more you pay for stuff the better your experience will be and the more content will come.. if no-one puts money in the pot the pot runs dry , the workers leave cuz they don't get paid and the game eventually stops getting updates and thats when the haxorz take over.. so be careful what you wish for.
    WaR~ThUnDeR ~ HaKuNa MaTaTa ~

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  17. #17
    Looks like I picked the wrong week to quit sniffing glue Blutkind's Avatar
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  18. #18
    I get enough exercise just pushing my luck AOD Member AOD_Roeffel's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by AOD_Blutkind View Post
    This can be a very decent solution, especially when u have no interested in the premium vehicles, I think I like it
    I never lose. I either win or I learn.


  19. #19
    "Every day is a beautiful day" - Elwood P Dowd AOD Member AOD_BBadenov's Avatar
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    Default

    Disclaimer: My opinion only

    As the former owner of a Software development company, I get annoyed by the incessant whining from people who expect continuous development of a state of the art combat simulator for free. My business, like so many others, was killed by rampant software piracy in the 1990's by people who wanted the benefit of our products without paying for them. It costs one h*ll of a lot of money to develop and sustain a combat simulator of this complexity. FTP is a different business model than traditional software licensing, GE and Premium vehicles are Gaijin's ONLY source of revenue. Without sufficient revenue (i.e. people spending money $ via Golden Eagles or premium vehicles) Gaijin will go out of business as well. Simple business economics. No revenue = No Product.

    I'm not insensitive to those who can't afford to spend a lot on the game, however be grateful you have free access to play and that it's not $60 with annual online maintenance fees. If we want continued game development and support, then we need to be prepared to support that development with a few bucks now and then.
    Last edited by AOD_BBadenov; 04-12-2016 at 05:53 PM.

  20. #20
    Boycott shampoo! Demand the REAL poo! Wundsalz's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by AOD_PapaPnut View Post
    I'm not insensitive to those who can't afford to spend a lot on the game, however be grateful you have free access to play and that it's not $60 with annual online maintenance fees. If we want continued game development and support, then we need to be prepared to support that development with a few bucks now and then.
    I've played Warthunder for about half a year now and spent slightly more on this game than I've ever payed for a AAA title. Warthunder basically sucks up almost my entire video-game budget, which I don't mind as it sucks up almost my entire play-time as well. I've also spent about 50 Euros on Robocraft back when I've played it a lot and I tend to chip a couple of bucks to the devs of F2P games in general. Point being: I haven't got a problem with Gaijin selling stuff for money per se. It's entirely about WHAT they sell here.

    I despise P2W mechanics. One of the first things I do whenever I pick up a F2P game is to check whether it offers any "insert coin to become 50% stronger"-options. If I spot one I'd be out. It's a matter of fair play. Especially in skill based games like WT I want to fight enemies on par no matter whether he has paid for the game or not. When I beat a player in a duel, I want to have the impression that I'm the better player - not the one with the bigger wallet. On this note I'd like to add War Thunder almost failed this check and I've been close to dropping the game before I got sucked into it. The Ace-crew Qualification really bugged me back then. It was locked behind a hard GE-paywall and deliberately provided an advantage over player who don't pay for it. However I've thought it was just about minor enough to tolerate it, though I've always frowned upon it and think it has been changed for the better now.

    Now, this is my mindset on F2P games and P2W elements. Combined with two perceptions it's the reason why I dislike the bushes.
    1.) GE = Money. GEs are the main currency in the game which allows you to about anything that's typically payed for in other F2P games as well (like premium time). GEs can be purchased with money and that's the main source of GEs for me, personally. I refuse to see events Gaijin occasionally runs as a main-income source and much rather perceive them as some sort of coupon/voucher a company hands out to raise the interest of their (potential) customers.
    2.) bushes provide an ingame advantage. In some game-modes it's harder to spot a tank in bush cover in woodlands and they can be used to cover weak-spots. I'm not sure whether the fact they disappear beyond roughly 100m is a bug or a feature (is there an official statement on this matter?), but even with this limitation in place it still provides an advantage over players who don't use them.

    So, as I perceive it, Gaijin has introduces an item (bushes) which is only accessible by spending money (GE) on it, which provides an advantage (reduced visibility for the enemy). Those are the characteristics of a pay to win mechanic. Of course the advantage the bushes provide are rather minor and are unlikely to change the outcome of a match. They won't cause me to quit the game, especially considering I'm least affected by it as an arcade player. It's the quality of the development which concerns me. So far I've had the impression Gaijin shies away from featuring P2W elements, yet they've introduced an item with P2W characteristics to the game now.

    Bottom-line: I'm concerned about the bushes and encourage the uproar against them. I think it to be an adequate tool to prevent Gaijin from taking further steps down the P2W-road which would spoil the game for me.
    Last edited by Wundsalz; 04-13-2016 at 02:22 AM.


 
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